I've only been reloading for a little over a year and I would really like to speed up my rounds / hour efficiency. I started reloading when I got an M1A to start in the local high power shoots.

I use a single stage 'Chucker' which isn't the bottleneck in the process. I spend relatively little time on the press compared to the time it takes to 'prep' the cases. I am loading .308 exclusively at this point.

I deprime before tumbling in an effort to get some of the residue out of the primer pocket but then I end up with not only cases jammed full of media but the primer pockets are jammed full also. Both requiring thr use of one of my plastic dental tools to scrape out.

I always run my cases over the rotating brush on my RCBS case prepper to clean the pockets further and then debur the flash hole.

My question (yea I know, finally) is how clean do these primer pockets need to be? Spotless, which seems it would almost take a solvent to clean out. Or is just clean enough for a new primer to fit in smoothly fine? There is also a cumulative effect on this residue and it gets progressively more difficult to get clean as the brass gets older in terms of firings.

Any insight would be appreciated. At this point I really don't see the advantage of a progressive press as sizing, priming, charging and seating all take much, much less time than it takes for me to jack with prepping the cases. I am after maximum accuracy so I go through the pains to do everything I've heard and/or read about in pursuit of golden BBs.

Thanks and Cheers to the New Year

XWind,

Once I've uniformed the flash hole on a piece of brass the only the only extra effort that I expend is to run a "primer pocket depth trimming tool" in after each firing. This does (IMHO) a most acceptable job of cleaning out any remaining residue, as well as the task it was designed to do.

I'd have to say that as long as the residue is out leaving only the stain of primer ignition it is perfectly acceptable. Check to make sure that any tumbling media is not blocking the flash hole, though.

Xwind,
you can get a primer cleaner from any number of places, but, even in my experience with great big ole benchrest guns, just scraped quickly is as good as spending 5 mins on em.

just make sure they are not crowded/hugely dirty/obstructing the pocket, and it'll be great...

how's your m1a shooting? my polytech shoots like a dream,

jeffe

Hello Xwind,

I always figured that if the decapping pin fits through the hole, the flame will get to the powder....

I usually clean the pockets with a brush on target loads, but use a progressive press for "regular" rifle and pistol loads - probably have some brass with five or more firings without cleaning pockets, never had a misfire.

I use "wet" (chemical) media and tumble with old primers in, and then load them up....

Regards, Bill

As Abe Normal says above, a primer pocket uniformer will do the trick. As for tumbling media clogging the flash holes, I took the depriming rod assembly out of an RCBS decapping die and set it in a file handle. I ground the tip of the decapping pin square/flat and it works like a house afire to remove media pushing in either direction. I've also used the rods out of Lee hand decappers set into a file handle; they are often caliber specific so will line up nicely through the case mouth and punch the crud right out. While I almost always clean the pockets on rifle cases, I never mess with pistol primer pockets and have never noticed any differences or problems.

As long as the residue does not affect the seating depth of the primer I would not be concerned.

I read that the cases are being sized first and then tumbled. I suggest that you reverse the proceedure. Residue from firing will wear your dies and scratch them. Also getting media in the flash hole by decaping them first is looking for trouble.

The post above about cleaning with a uniformer is the best idea. That's what I do.

Check around for some free 30/06 miliary ball. If you shoot in a DCM approved match your club might be able to find some.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm new to this forum and really appreciate the attitude here. Everyone is very helpful and not upset about answering another new guys question.

Savage I wasn't clear when I said I deprimed first you of course would think that was during the resizing process. Actually I use a Universal decapping die just to punch the primer(s) out. I only resize when the brass is sqeaky clean.

I too thought that if the primer fit and the flash hole was clear than it should be fine. But after growing up as the proud son of a Mud Marine that would inspect my guns after cleaning, he wouldn't let me stop cleaning until it was CLEAN!
So when I see that residue in the primer pocket I still feel 'guilty' that I'm not doing a proper job (yes probably time for therapy ;-).

I love the press work and checking run out, brass thickness and all of those tests looking for that last 1-2% improvement. But the case prep stuff is really starting to take the 'fun' out of reloading. If I added up the hours I spend prepping cases and figure 1/4 my regular work pay, It seems I should just buy some factory match ammo and spend my time at the range where the practice will for sure make some difference.

In any case, sorry for the whining, and thanks again for the excellent feedback and advice. Time to go process some cases and spend the next 4 hours making 20-40 rounds from the gungy brass I brought back from the range.

BTW that M1A is a real shooter. I love that Garand action!

Good luck guys...

In my experience, I have not found scubbing primer pockets to be a great aid in accuracy, with results seldom even being noticable. That being said, I generally do clean the pockets, due to my personality more than my feeling that it is necessary.

But that primer pocket cleaning is only done for varmint rifles and sometimes my hunting ammo... depends on how I feel at the time. I never clean the pockets for my "plinking" rifles, i.e. .45-70's, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, AR, etc. When I do clean the pockets, it is a quick brush with an RCBS Primer Pocket Brush and just enough to get the "heavy" residue out. I don't worry about cleaning all the residue and staining out and only just a twist of the wrist is all that I require... For what it is worth....

Ultrasonic cleaning (in batch mode) removes all primer reside inside of the pocket as well as throughout the entire case.

I have achieved the same results with either an acidic or alkaline-based cleaner. Both tend to slightly discolor the brass but either mode thoroughly cleans the cases down to the brass. A corn-cob media polishing reestablishes the cases' luster (although I tend to not do this last step as much lately).

Buy the rcbs pocket uniformer for your case prep machine BUT DO NOT PUT IT ON THE CASE PREP MACHINE!! I've found that the natural "walking motion" of the gear clash tends to not let the stations spin in a real tight motion.
This results (at least for me) in pockets that get a "loose" feeling after a few reloadings.

Take the uniformer and chuck it into a drill and you will clean about 20 cases in 4-5 minutes PLUS you get the added benefit of uniforming FOR FREE.

It is simply the fastest, easiest, most accurate way to clean AND uniform for so little time invested.

PS--the tool costs a whopping $12-15 depending on where you order it!!

I would like to hear more about ultrasonic cleaning.

El Viejo,

Yes, I currently use a 3-qt GemOro brand Ultrasonic Cleaner unit (ModNo: 3QTH-1704). It comes equipped with an illuminated rocker-switch activated fixed heater (gets water just over a 120 degrees); a 60-min analog dial timer switch (mechanical); an abs-plastic pressure fitted drain valve (onto which I place a 1/2" clear plastic hose), standard three-pronged plug-in power cord, stainless steel lid; and an add-on stainless steel basket (purchased separately). I think a got about $450 in it. I purchased it from a local jewelry store. And in order to properly use UC, one must have this minimal capability. Naturally, one will find additional capabilities, but it is fluff, and needless expenditure. I have to continually drain the cleaning water because the dirt residue is highly caustic and attacks the stainless steel bin. The basket is a fundamental requirement. It is an industrial approach to the problem space which is why I use it.

If you learn more about UC, please refer to the site located at: http://www.tmasc.com . I have used this as one of my starting points to learn about the process and technical aspects associated with it.

The other component to this is a Deionized Water (DI) filtration system. I got a system from Spectra Pure ( http://www.spectrapure.com/St_main.htm#ro-di ) the SP2000-15.

For the cleaning agent, I use 1 capful (non-smelly) laundry detergent to 9 parts of DI water.

I degas the water and heat it up to its max temp (which must be done every time the water is changed).

For pistol cases: After I decap all of the cases, i place them into the unit, place the lid on it, and after 1/2 hour, totally clean brass.

For Rifle cases; I have also been known to use half-&-half of pure white vinegar to DI water.

It happens to be what works for me.

After each application, I give the brass an Acetone bath. You may use your favorite polishing technique here before reloading. If one does not want to fool around with volatile accelerants, then an ultrasonic rinse of pure DI water is sufficient (so long as one can evacuate all water).

Advantages using this technique:

1. Does not alter the physical surface of the case(s)
2. ALL foreign matter totally removed (i.e. corrosion [minus pits], oils, dirt, primer matter, residual or burned powder residue). One is left with pure brass.
3. Less time required to have fully clean brass available on inventory
4. easier to visually inspect and find apparent flaws in any case(s)
5. Consistency in output

Disadvantages:

1. Interrupts the existing or traditional process methodology
2. Somewhat expensive (from a hobbyist or enthusiast�s perspective)

I�ve been using this technique for over 5 years now and am only satisfied that I have absolutely sterile brass (from an industrial perspective).

Are other techniques okay � absolutely! However, if one wants to process and enormous amount of brass, this would be the most viable solution to this problem space (without reservation).

By the way, this same type of technique works in my gunsmithing activities as well. This technique has also been used to revitalize badly rusted dies for some of my friends.

[ 01-03-2003, 09:03: Message edited by: Alex Szabo ]

I just use a straight steel Dremel brush in a Dremel tool. Doesn't make the pocket brass shiny, just very clean black, only takes 2-3 seconds per case.

Xwind said "Those chemicals to make me a bit nervous and is one of the reasons I shut down my home dark room. As much as I loved taking film aout of a camera and turning it into a beautiful 11"x14" print I just couldn't justify the chemical exposure (some are really nasty and yes it's off topic but...)."

That's why my wife and I went to vitamin C based, "mix it yourself", developers some years ago.

Guys, I was using the dremel thing for a long time. Seemed to cut out my primer pockets deep over two or three times. So I quit and now just wisk out one or two turns. Seems to work better.

XWind,

Why not try an experiment. Load and shoot some rounds without cleaning the primer pockets. Do it mutiple times to see if your accuracy suffers.

I don't shoot hi-power or even a semi-auto rifle...not legal for hunting here in PA. I do load semi-auto pistol rounds on a progressive press. Primer pockets never get cleaned. They all function fine and are just as accurate for the life of the case. And case life is not nearly as long in my pistols as in my bolt-action rifles.

No offense please, but it could be that you're just being anal with all this cleaning. Try the experiment. It might cut your loading bench time.

OneFun, Absolutely no offense taken. In many cases I am the definition of anal retentive. Just ask the guys I take shooting One slip from 'my' definition of safe gun handling and I'm all over them. It's apples and oranges of course, range safety / gun handling vs getting a primer pocket clean but this character trait surfaces quite often. I can't help it really, it's burned into my feeble mind and like I mentioned moderation is the lesson of the day for me. I'm no spring chicken and old habits die hard. It still takes me a couple hours to really get a weapon clean for storage. If it's going back out in a day or next weekend I give it a speedy clean until the season is over.

Sorry I can't remember everyone's handle while here in the reply window but someone mentioned that you can actually over clean stuff causing more harm than good. My best example of that is a Winchester 1897 12 guage pump I grew up watching my father shoot until I finally inherited it. When dad gave me that gun and told me it was still a good shooter and I could use it for clays, skeet etc, I broke it down for him, which I can do blind folded because guess who cleaned that gun after a day of hunting. There are some large threads that assist in holding the barrel to the receiver. This gun has been taken down and cleaned so many times those thread are worn way down. So I explained to dad I was retiring this gun and would use my old 870 in it's place. Well he still disagreed with me but I've got the gun and it's definitely retired.

I'm going to do just what you recommend and back off on some of my over meticulous habits to speed things up and keep it fun while leaving more range time.

Thanks again for all the input on this post and I'm all the better for it.

XWind

p.s. Since it's so off topic I would like someday to get more info on that vitamin C based photo developer mentioned a few posts up. I ass-u-me that it's for B/W work. The CibaChrome stuff that makes those beautiful magazine quality color prints is the nasty stuff...but that's a topic for another day, and probably another forum...Cheers

Since I use a progressive press, the only time I clean out rifle primer pockets is when I am going to trim the cases. I trim the cases after every third firing. I never clean the primer pockets of my hangun brass. I have never had a primer fail to seat all of the way or fail to fire because of primer pocket residue, nor does it affect accuracy.