hello all, i am a newbie to this site and reloading.

my gunsmith put together for me a custom savage .223 with a 1-14" twist 27" dan lilja barrel.
he advised i use Reloader 7 and 40 gr v-max bullets with WIN brass and have fun.

he worked up a couple of these loads at his shop and the rifle made one hole with 3 shots at 100 yards and chrono'ed at around 3700fps.
so, i know it's a good combo.

but, what i am concerned about is the Reloader 7 powder temperature sensitive?
i recently learned that hodgdon powders are not affected by temps--or is that just varget?
so i was wondering if Reloader 7 is as well.

so, from what i have learned, in general, it's
ok to reload in hot temps and shoot in cold temps, but it is not safe to reload in cold temps amd shoot in hot temps, correct?

Steve,

you didn't list the charge weight he suggested...

I can tell ya, that with 40 grain Bullets you should be able to do a charge load of 24 grains of Rl 7, with a small rifle primer or a small pistol primer.. and not have to worry about temp fluxuations in my experiences...

I run hotter loads than that in my 223s...but since you are new to this, stay with a max load of 24 grains.. that will keep you ought of trouble even in the hot Texas sun....

I'd avoid mag primers tho...especially in Texas summers...

Small pistol primers have a lower flame to them, and work real well with RL 7 in all of my rifles also...chambered in 223...

seafire,

thanks for your reply, i was starting to think no one here used reloader 7 for .223.

i don't remember the charge weight, but, i am going to call him back to confirm it before i start to reload, he has it logged down. i do remember that he insisted i use CCI BR4 primers though. is there a that big of a diff between BR4 and 400 CCI primers?

so if i use 24gr of RL 7, what kind of velocities should i expect from a 27" barrel?

First work up from about 22.5 grains in your rifle to make sure that 24 grains is safe...

any reloader with any experience will tell you that you never start at max load, always work up from a safer and lower level...

as you stated, it was estimated that you should be getting around 3700 fps out of your barrel... that is within the range...

in my 223s, the velocity with that load and a 40 grain bullet can run from 3400 fps to 3800 fps depending on barrel length, seating depth used, throat dimensions etc...

as far as the primers you were recommended.. that is like drinking champagne when beer is just fine...

some guys think that they will use nothing but Benchrest and match grade primers.. I am a varmint shooter.. the regular stuff seems to work just fine in any varmint set up that I use...

RL 7 has been around for a long time.. just like IMR 4198.. both are great in a 223, but they suffer from not being released recently or having a trendy name like Varget or TAC etc...

However, I use both RL 7 and IMR 4198, and they both work just fine...RL 7 especially is a very very accurate powder....whether it is trendy or not...

They gave it a fancy name, and a lot of mew recently introduced advertisement and the stores wouldn't be able to keep it on the shelf, and everyone would be ranting and raving about what a great invention it is...

Ya know, 24 grains of RL 7 and 50 grain TNT Speers... a 223 rifle and its owner can live happily ever after in any varmint field under the sun in my book...

seafire, thank you,

good info right there.

so, would there be any pressure and or velocity changes between the CCI BR4 and the CCI 400 primers with the same powder charges?

i take it you mean there would be no accuarcy diff between the 2, not even at 200 yards? have you used the CCI 400 primer specificly?
it is defenintly cheaper than the BR4, that's for sure.

First off I'D like to say thanks for the great info here. I too am loading my first batch of .223 for a Rem SPS w/ 1 in 12 twist . I have chose 40 and 50 gr V max bullets behind Varget powder . I intend to follow a Lyman manual and stay below max.
If only the brown truck would get here with my hand primer !! Arrg.

quote:

Originally posted by steven g:
seafire, thank you,

good info right there.

so, would there be any pressure and or velocity changes between the CCI BR4 and the CCI 400 primers with the same powder charges?

i take it you mean there would be no accuarcy diff between the 2, not even at 200 yards? have you used the CCI 400 primer specificly?
it is defenintly cheaper than the BR4, that's for sure.

Steve,

what works in my rifles may not apply to what will work in yours.. .rifles like of different primers is the same as some people like a steak rare, and some people prefer it well done...

Play with both, and IF you notice any difference use the one that works best with your load....

I normally use Winchester Primers over CCI in the 223.. the only reason being that they are softer, and a little smaller in diameter...

This comes into play, that if you have a military case, and the primer crimp has not been totally removed.. the Winchester will still go in most times.. the CCI's won't and screw up things...

I have found the Winchesters to be a little more accurate than the CCIs... however, in the world of varmint shooting NEITEHR have let me down.. and we are talking popcanned sized varmints out to 300 yds or more...

seafire,
once again good info.

i will try some rounds with both primers and see what gets the best groups. thanks, sg

When working up a load for .223 is it best to move up by .3 or can you use .5 grs. as long as your not near the max?? Thanks Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Leadlobber:
When working up a load for .223 is it best to move up by .3 or can you use .5 grs. as long as your not near the max?? Thanks Mark

My rule of thumb is that you can move up 1% per time....if you're at 100 grains you can move up 1 full grain per time etc.....in this case about .24 grains per time....round it either way!

Thanks Vapodog your 1% rule makes sense.I have learned much from posters as yourself and Seafire along with others.. Mark

How much I work up has to do with how slow or fast the powder is, how close I am to listed max, and how large the case may be...

an 06 case can't be classified the same as a 223 case for instance....

With 4831, I have no problem moving up 1/2 grain increments.....In powders like Blue Dot in the 223 cases, I moved up in 1/10 grain increments developing those loads...

working with another powder recently on reduced loads for the 223, I had one powder that was just fine... and 1/10 a grain more and it really screwed up the action and rifle....about $50.00 in parts from the factory, me doing the work.. and repairing the stock it cracked in a couple of directions...some powders really have pressure spikes and don't let you know when danger is just 1/10 a grain away... others give you tons of warning signs...

this particular powder was giving some very good results with the 223.. however, since it has the ability to pressure spike that quickly, there is no way I would share the findings with fellow forum members.. or even mention the powder I was testing out.. less someone gets some bright ideas that I don't want to be remotely responsible for...

If you don't know what you are doing handloading, then ALWAYS consult someone who does, before proceeding...

As this thread started out on... I can tell you from personal experience, that RL 7 at a 24 grain charge with a 40 grain bullet is SAFE in all types of brass and actions that I have tried it in...

I can also tell you that I can go higher than that, by quite a bit in SOME cases, with SOME primers... but that IN other cases, with other primers, you are looking for trouble...24 grains give you very safe margins here...

3700 fps, with a 40 grain bullet out of a 223, you are doing well.. if you need even more, consider a 22.250... I can run a 40 grain bullet at 4000 fps out of a 223, with RL 7... however, it depends on what brand of case, what primers used to still be safe.. and looking at trajectory charts with that bullet, how much flatter a trajectory are your really gaining???

3700 fps is going to give you all that almost any shooter can utilize in the field anyway...

Learn to use a mil dot scope and you don't need any extra velocity than that.. for shots waaay waay out there....

wow, good info again,

the main reason why i would want to increase the fps is to cut down on the wind drift. the time of flight is important with a light bullet i have been told.
i am confused about the diff in primers though, what would be the big diff as far as velocities about the CCI BR4 and the CCI 400? unless you mean--diff between mag and standard primers, then i got ya. i understand diff case thickness has a lot to do with it also.

just on a side note:
hornady makes a 40gr vmax round and claims it goes 3800fps, it says it on their website and the box. i was pumped, i thought, i don't have to reload, i'll just use these. well out of 27" barrel (supposed to get even more fps with longer barrel) it chrono'ed on avg at 3650fps for the whole 20 rounds, not very thrilled about that.
i just reload now, thank you. to give hornady credit though, the ammo produced very consistant velocities for factory ammo. i had 11 different duplicates velocities through out the 20 rounds. i went on 2 diff days to shoot the 20 rounds.
i hope i can reload as good or better.

I have been using RL-7 for my .223 following Seafire's recommendation. I was lead to a search for a good powder for the .223 after I found Varget not suited for the velocities that I was looking for in the Nosler BT 40 grain. I would guess that the varget might be just a whisper slower burning for the high velocity loads in a .223 case. Seafire stated that high velocities could be obtained with higher than recommended loading manual charges of RL-7 without the high pressure signs popping up if you monitored them on the way up. I found that a great load in one Remington ADL was too hot for a Remington SPS Varmint and adjusted it downward. I would think the smart thing to do would be to make up your max loads and test them in the higher temperatures of the summer months instead of the inverse. I've been very pleased with the accuracy of the RL-7 in my .223 and would recommend it.

I'm in business the brown truck just dropped off my hand primer!! I may try RL-7 in the future I'm looking for a powder that will work in both .223 and .308 I will have to read up on RL powders .Thanks everyone ..Later Mark