I posted a couple of weeks ago about some grouping issues I was having with my new savage 223 and h4895. I took some advice and tried some varget and h335. Still not up to par in my opinion. So I'm thinking it might be a gun problem, so where would you start? Groups are running around 1 inch @ 100, but never every group has a flier blowing the group to 1.5moa. Some groups are split making two really small groups but 1.5 moa overall. The scope is a new 6x18 buckmaster mounted on warne steel bases in burris sig zee rings. The scope is new but I doubt the scope considering 223 recoil. Like all savages, the crown looks a little rough and it's sitting in the factory free-floated stock.a

Here's what I tried.

Varget:
24gr-25gr over 75gr hornady match
24gr-25.5gr over 68 hornady match

h335:
22gr-24gr over 75 hornady match (probably too fast powder for the 75)
24gr-25.5gr over 68 match.

I was hoping it was a loose nut behind the trigger, but my savage 22-250 in similar setup was running below .5 moa today. Conditions were perfect, slight breeze below 5 mph.

What is the twist rate of the barrel? Those bullets are on the heavy end of 223 loadings.
Pete

1/9 twist

quote:

Originally posted by PJ:
What is the twist rate of the barrel? Those bullets are on the heavy end of 223 loadings.
Pete

Savages currently have a 1 in 9 twist rate on the .223 barrels, if it is a newer gun. Is it a synthetic stock?

It has the el-cheapo plastic stock. I also tried two different Bell and Carlson duramaxx stocks as well.

So, I've tried 3 stocks, two different brands of brass, 3 different bullets, and 3 different powders. Maybe is should invest in a better stock and possible rebarrel the thing. Just hate to do that considering it only has 250 rounds down the tube.

quote:

I've tried 3 stocks, two different brands of brass, 3 different bullets, and 3 different powders.

Yet you stopped short of changing primers. Perhaps an oversight that may yield smaller groups.

forget the heavy bullets and go with a 55 grain one. that may be part of the problem. varget is a good choice though, both my .243 and .223 shoot it well.

why are you shooting such heavy bullets? competition?

-Matt

My Savage shoots well with 69g Match Kings and Varget, and 52g bthp with BL-C2.

I suspect a stock fit problem. Either the Pillars are not making contact with the action, or the recoil lug isn't making good contact. With such a light recoiling rifle, I don't know what to look for to prove either case. Maybe someone else knows what to look for.

Did you ask at www.savageshooters.com ?

Justin,

Not to be insulting.. because I find it happening to me...

But are you and that accutrigger getting along?

Have you had someone else fire the rifle and see how their groups look?

I'd bank on your are jerking the accu trigger, instead of pulling it all the way back until the creep is gone out of it, before pulling the rest of the way to engage the firing pin....

I was guilty of the same thing initially with mine also....

good luck
seafire

I want to shoot the heavies to buck the wind. This gun is strictly for bench use right now. I wanted the fast twist 223 to shoot the heavy bullets out to 600 yds and still buck the wind like the larger calibers.

B17G,
Point taken and you're right about the accutrigger getting used to. My savage fvss in 22-250 also has the accutrigger and I've been shooting it for a couple of years. It shoots in the .6s with ease, and sometimes down in the .3s. Today I was switching back and forth between rifles and the 22-250 shoots circles around it's little brother. Both guns have the same stock and trigger.

I would like to hear from someone on how to check the recoil lug contact. I may post over in gunsmithing and see if someone can answer.

As for primers, I'm open for suggestions. I only have Winchester in the small rifle right now. I guess I could try some Remington or Federals.

Some rifles (regardless of twist rate) just don't like some bullets or specific bullet weights.

I used to have a ruger that loved 60's and 62's
or 40's and 50's but I never found a 55gr it liked.

I think you are chasing the fact that your particular rifle doesn't like the bullets you want to use.

"tried three different bullets" doesn't ammount to much if you by simple luch of the draw manage to pick three
(of the same brand) that your rifle doesn't like....

Have you tried any Burger? Sierra?
Both Berger and Sierra have a better selection of .224 "heavy weights"

Berger offers a 70grVLD, 73grMatch-BT, 75grMatch-VLD
and an 80grMatch-VLD. all for about $21/100

Sierra offers 69, 77 & 80gr HPBT-MatchKing
Sierra's usually group well I just won't use their
big game bullets.

BTW, I've had inconsistant results with H335 in cold weather
enough so that I won't use it in cold weather...
in cold weather my go-to propellant with 50-55gr bullets has been RL-7

With heavier bullets? I'd be inclined to try IMR4895
And I think Benchmark might be a better choice than Varget in any 223 load...

you might also try RL12, though with the 69-up pills RL15 might be a better choice.

onefunzr2's suggestion of changing primers is a good one.

3 bullets and three powders is still only nine potential combinations.

BTW, are you using neck sized brass or virgin brass?
Who's brass?
Who's dies?

I've seen several Redding dies that caused severe concentricity problems >0.010" fortunatly none of them mine... All my Redding dies are for pistol cartridges.

AllanD

If he is getting "groups" with flyers, I'd say the problem is more a bedding problem or bench technique. Or it could be a lack of consistancy in his reloading altho luck of the draw would let him pull 5 "good" rounds out of the sack every once in a while. And he is so frustrated that he is starting to "scatter shot" around looking for answers.
While I have no brief for folks that want to try and make a .243 of their .223, I think the shooter needs to get a box of 52-53gr Sierra match bullets and load say 25grs of H335 behind them and shoot some of his most careful groups. Say, 10 5 shot groups and then he can better analyze his problems.
I have never had a change of primers make a good load out of a bad one.

Are you seating the bullets into the rifling? Sometimes this can be the problem. My 700 remington 223vs like 25.4 gr of IMR4895 and 52gr Hornady hpbt match bullets. I also use cci400 small rifle primers. At our clubs match in January the little gun shot a .108 group at 100yds and won the match with 197-3x. I don't remember what the oal is right at the moment.

My 2 cents
Larry

All rounds are loaded to box length of 2.300. I don't remember the length to lands right now.