In a previous post about the K&M expandiron, I guess I did'nt word the question so as to get the answers I was looking for, so I'll try again here. My problem is that the expander button in the RCBS FL sizer die drags, scratches, squeeks, squalls, and pulls awful hard as it exits through the case which I think is causing the case to stretch and causing the runout. I was wondering if it would work to remove the expander button in the sizer die, and use the K&M expanderiron to inside necksize in a seperate step. I'm was'nt planning to use it for the purpose of preping cases for neck turning. Is the K&M expander tool better centered and smoother than the factory sizer die expander balls and would it help to reduce runout and case strecth in that sense?

I think the KM expader is a mandrel that is used to hold the case mouth square and in line with the cutter.
The expander is what is causing your problem with run out.
run out can be reduced if you refine you reloading method.
1.. brass is in good condition and all the same head stamp and from the same lot.
2.. clean the necks inside and out.
3.. chamfer the neck inside before resizing.
4.. use case lube on the inside of the case neck while resizing.
How many times has the brass been reloaded ? the brass could be worked hardened and need replaced or anneiled.
also it would not hurt to polish the expander, chuck it in a drill and use 0000wool or 400 emmry.
Try the Km tool as an expander let us know if it worked.
Dave

There at least two reasons your expander is grabbing and squeaking going through the neck, the first is that it may be that the neck of the die is sizing the neck way too far down. The second is that the expander ball may be too big for what it's supposed to be doing.

Try this. Measure the neck of a case fired in your rifle. Remove the expander, size that case and measure it again. If that case is sizing MORE than about .011"-.012" it's likely you are oversizing the neck which is making it much more difficult to pull the expander ball through after it's squeezed down so much. If that be the case, send the die back to the manufacturer with two fired cases. They'll polish out the neck to make it conform more to your chamber. You can also polish down the expander ball a bit to get smoother extraction.

I know of several reloaders who do exactly what you are proposing doing, preferring to expand going into the neck rather than coming out. They claim to get better neck concentricity that way. There isn't any reason for you NOT to do it, it's just a lot more hassle than having the die worked over to enable you to do it all in one operation. That K&M expander WILL work for the purpose, however it may expand a bit too much to hold the bullet as tight as you might want. You could put it in a drill or lathe and turn and polish it down a couple of thou's which would work as well but you can do that with the expander ball you have now.

Polishing expander buttons is standard operating procedure at my bench. What I prefer to do, however, is to use a Redding Body die and a Lee collet die. HTH, Dutch.

Yes, you can use the K&M Expandiron in place of the expander button. I do it all the time.



Necksize first, or FL size. Then run it through the K&M, especially if you need to trim the brass. It will allow you to trim the case, without galling the crap out of your brass. I do it irregardless of trimming. It will square the case mouth for you. It also reduces neck tension. It is a wonderful tool!! Use it all you can!!



Anougher great little tool, is a run out gauge. Sinclair makes a good one, I have a RCBS. Check the case neck runout, after they go thru the sizing die. I dont use anything over .002 case run out, for accuracy loads. I think you'll find an avereage case neck run out to be about .001, after you run it thru the K&M. Even with the factory brass.



Iam sure others have better ways, but theres my story. I can produce rounds with an average of .002 bullet run out or less....sakofan..

Sakofan,
You said the expandiron reduces neck tension. Is there enough neck tension to hold the bullets tight enough that they won't move (get shoved in) from recoil while in the magazine (.270 WSM)? These loads are for hunting purposes only, so they will have to withstand quite a few trips through the magazine. Other than this concern, sounds like the expandiron is the answer to my problems.

If it doesn't there isn't much to fixing it.

Quote:

---

That K&M expander WILL work for the purpose, however it may expand a bit too much to hold the bullet as tight as you might want. You could put it in a drill or lathe and turn and polish it down a couple of thou's which would work as well but you can do that with the expander ball you have now.

---

I see I am not the only one with this type of problem at times.

My first suggestion is just call RCBS and ask them to send you another expander ball, since you are having so much trouble. They probably will, and that may cure the problem right there.

I had the same problem with a Redding Die in 6mm Remington. Redding told me that I needed to clean the inside of each case with some bore cleaner and a brass brush. It did improve the problem.

However another way I have avoided the problem is to run the expander ball as high in the die as it will go. It eliminated the same problem, but I have to de primer the case with a Universal De Primer.

Because I hate the nightmare of a stuck case, I changed the way I size my cases anyway. I am avoiding that stuck case nightmare.

I just pull the expander plug out of the die, period and resize the case that way. Then I will run the cases thru the tumbler and clean them and the lube off of them. I lube my cases with WD 40 in a frying pan that I got for $7.00 in the camping section at Walmart. ( I can hear the critics on that procedure, LoL).

After the cases are cleaned, I then use a Neck Sizing Die from Lee to de prime and neck size the case mouth to the proper dimensions.

It is a few more steps, but I would almost rather walk over hot coals than to try and have to get a stuck case removed. If I occasionally get one, I just can put a mandrel down the die opening since the de capping unit and expander ball is not in there, and just use a hammer to punch it out.

I sort of developed my own systems, after following what the reloading instruction videos told me to do and had some screw ups to experience. To repair the screw ups was no where near as easy as shown in the videos!

And for $10.00 a Lee Universal Depriming Die is a cheap $10.00 well spent. It can deprime 22 caliber to 444 Marlin( which are my limits) with no problem.

Cheers and good shooting
Seafire

If all you want to do is expand in a seperate step, buy the Lyman "M" die. It'll work, and a lot cheaper than the K&M. JMO, Dutch.

I had 8mm Lee and RCBS dies, but never getting better than 1.6" 3 shot groups at 100m.

So I ordered some Forster dies.

Before the Forster dies arrived, I went to the range with 10 rounds assembled with the RCBS dies with the expander ball stem removed.
I sighted in a 40X scope and got a 1" 5 shot group at 100 meters with my 1903 Turkish Mauser.

Maybe I could have saved some money on dies and just removed the expander ball stem.

Dutch has it right!!! I have both the K&M and the lyman m-die. The m-die will get you closer to the mouth tension you will want. I do however occasionally use the K&M with hard seating bullets. Some bullets just plain seem a little oversized and seat hard no matter what the expansion method used. Some bullets that come to mind are certain swift a-frames, some of the original Jack Carter Trophy bonded, and some barnes x-bullets designed for the 30-30. The m-die is a wonderfully universal tool that is cheap )about $10) and can be used in different ways. I use them all the time to "de-ding" new factory brass before loading. Especially rem brass that lately seems to come from a last stage of tumbling about the equal of a cement mixer. I would recomend the m-die as the place to start.

I'm afraid I selected a fairly expensive way to solve this problem, but it works well. I simply cut over to Wilson neck sizing knock out dies over time. Those things are terrific, very little if any out of roundness, and can be used with a little rawhide mallet which also works for the seater. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal