Hello,

Here's another "cherry handloader" question. I'm just curious if I'm going about this in the right manner and if anyone knows of any "tips" to expedite the search for the most accurate production of ammo.

I know, it all depends on the components, how those components are fitted together, the gun, the tempurature, possibly the moon phase, and last but not least, the shooter. But, say in a percentile figure, just which variables contribute the most to accuracy? Each variable must have weighted contribution factors lets say. So, what are they? Is Yoda out there?

Here's my story. I have been loading .45acp from a Rockchucker since last October. I usually load a round lot of 50 at a time and have loaded, are you ready, a whopping 1000 rounds to date...like I said above, "cherry". I am currently loading 200 grain copper coated bullets with WST at varying powder charges(within the proper limits of course), crimp, and COL to test accuracy. I then test 5 rounds out of my pistol. So far the best combination has produced a one inch group at 10 yards. Once I push out further, the group seems to loosen quicker than expected.

Have I reached the point I'm looking for? Or, is there still further excellence to find once I find that "accurate" combination? Am I going about this in the right way?

All comments and suggestions welcomed! I'm sure SOMEBODY out there has "been here" before!

Thanks in advance,

Rod

Rod,

Here's a wild guess for offhand rifle shooting:

1. Shooter ability (assuming no physical handicap) 95%

2. gun (of which barrel can be 90%) 4%

3. Ammo 1% (bullet 80%, primer 10%, load combination 10%)

Perhaps these are best viewed with the perspective of contributing to INACCURACY under perfect conditions.

Ability would cover all aiming and shooting aids, of course. Most everyone who can fire a gun can shoot within say 600 minutes of angle offhand. Scope and bag that gun on the bench and the gun/ammo weights will skyrocket.

And their weights will vary according to individuals and conditions. G. David Tubb's shooting ability will shrink to say 20% and gun/ammo will rise proportionately. Then the wind kicks up and suddenly his ability weight goes up to 99.9%.

It will also vary according to goals. When the expectations are placed in a competitive environment, where shooters are near same ability, suddenly gun/ammo has much more weight.

Too, load development is just a means to an end. When Tubb develops a load, I'm sure he is just like the rest of us, desiring a calm day to minimize the ill effects of shooter ability, etc.

Finally, some just want to see tight groups and will go through barrels like a Hollywood hunk goes through girlfriends. Others want to simply squeeze the best out of the gun as is. For the latter the weight value of the gun would be 0.

Good esoteric question.

As far as your .45ACP, if it's a stock GOV'T model you're getting good accuracy. If it's a match gun, it could do a little better maybe. The gun has a higher weight value in pistol shooting (excepting single-shots).

[ 04-24-2003, 17:01: Message edited by: steve y ]

In regard to accuracy, I have found it easier to get target-grade accuracy with rifle ammo than pistol ammunition, particularly in .45 ACP. In fact, it is a challenge to load .45 ACP ammo that will perform as well as factory-loaded TARGET AMMO, such as the 185-grain SWC type. Accuracy in a pistol load depends upon the utmost in uniformity from one round to the next. In addition, I assume you are taper-crimping your .45 ACP loads, since this round headspaces on the case mouth. You can't crimp too much or you will introduce varying headspace, which is going to destroy accuracy. I don't crimp my .45 ACP loads at all, but do bell the case mouths a little more if using soft (non-jacketed) bullets, in order to try to avoid any damage to the bullets. Any damage to the bullet BASE will cause the kind of group spread that you describe. Also, full-wadcutter types will shoot VERY accurately to the limit of their stability, then begin to fly all over the place. The full wadcutter types are good to about 50 yards, only. However, I suspect your bullets are semiwadcutters, right??

[ 04-24-2003, 17:59: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Thank you both for your enlightenment concerning accuracy. Thanks for the weighted percentages of contribution...that makes sense.

I have not been shooting a match grade pistol. Eventually I would like to customize a pistol for competition but for now, getting started, I'm shooting a Glock 21 that I bought right when they came out in 1991. Just this year I've started shooting this pistol on a regular basis. As far as ammo, I have been shooting Berry's 200 grain FP with a light taper crimp. I too hold the theory that the less damage to the projectile the better. The goal that I'm working towards is accuracy to a respectable degree at 25 yards with this factory pistol in .45 ACP. As for the factors that contribute to this I think I'm getting there. I just needed some guidance and second thoughts on the matter. At this point, practicing the shooter is my focus.

Thanks again,
Rod

Hello Rod,

You are on the right track w/ your Glock. I think you'll find if you are shooting 1" @ 10yds then in theory your group @ 25yds will be appr. 2.5"-3".
If you are testing various loads you should be shooting from a bench w/ the your shooting hand resting on some sort of shooting bags (don't rest the butt of the gun on the bag). I shoot WST in my 45acps & get sim. accuracy. You can try some match quality bullets in place of the plated ones & see if that tightens things up a bit, but I think your load sounds fine.

Fred,

Thanks for the advise and comments. Which match grade bullets do you recommend to use in a Glock? Also, I use a thumbs forward grip on the Glock...if I use a bag, what do you recommend as a grip on the bag? I know, newbee questions, but you know, I'm open to any suggestions that would give improvement!

So, what does it take to gain the status of "One of Us"?

Thanks again,
Rod

A lot of people have a hard on for glocks,but they are usually very accurate and your 0ne inch groups are the norm. The problem I've seen with glocks,is people using cast bullets. The rifling glock uses is best with jacketed bullets(supposedly pressure spikes occur and the barrels are prone to leading due to design) and most people use after market barrels when shooting cast in a glock.

To become "One of Us" you need a few more posts...

I've been loading for rifles for awhile but have just recently started loading for my .45 ACP. I'm still looking for the one "wonder load." I've got a very accurate load using Bullseye, but the Bullseye is so dirty I quit using it...

I don't know if you have tried this yet...But if I am having trouble getting good performance from a new rifle, I often go and get a box of premium factory ammo. Before I waste my time and money on components, I'll shoot a bit of this ammo to get a baseline of what the gun is capable of.

You might want to get a premium box of ammo, see how it shoots in your pistol, and if it shoots well you know what you should be getting with good handloads. Then you just need to find out how to make your ammo perform the same!

And use a good steady rest. Bloody hard to get a good group if your point of aim is wandering all over the place...

All great words. I appreciate your comments and help.

I now have my work cut out for me. I will take all of these things into consideration and especially work on the "trigger time". I'm going to try the box of quality ammo and if I was a betting man, I'd bet that I am the weak link past 10 yards based on the feedback here! I'm also going to revisit the 230 grain FMJ.

Thanks again,
Rod