Well, my 9 year search for a 358 Win Browning BLR has come to an end! I got the dies and some 308 Federal Match brass which I will prep this week in preparation for the BLR arrival.
I have two questions. What are your favorite loads for deer and maybe elk in the timber? Please list accuracy/velocity if known.
What do you guys think about the 225 gr Sierra? I know this bullet usually shoots very accurately but what about performance on game? I would guess it is probably too soft for elk, but what about bear, deer and hogs? Any input would be appreciated. Thanx
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
Pop I have one of the original Sav 99 Featherweights in 358. It is a dream to handle in the bush. I have had very good sucess with the 200 gr Hornady Spire pt. Used it on deer ,black bear and a moose with no problems. I've found IMR 3031 to be the powder of choice. I tried some of the 250 gr speers but velocity is down and the trajectory suffers. If I wanted more bullet than 200 I think I would go to the 225 Nosler.
I like 44.0 gr. of IMR-3031 with either the Hornady or Sierra round nose in my .358's. I have two Ruger 77's and just recently found a BLR in .358. Gun was a bit pricey, but I like the feel. I think it has a few bedding problems in the foreend that I have to attend to, but other than that, I like it. Got to relieve some of the wood near the tip as she walks to the right quite a bit at 2 o'clock. Paul B.
Posts: 2814 | Location: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: 11 May 2001
Pop, My experience with 358s is 1903a3 douglas barrel savage 99 stock blr pre-81 stock mexican mauser, douglas barrel, custom.
My best experience is with 225 sierras and 200 barnes x. 225 seirras with 48.5 gr of win 748 is a good starting load. The blr and 99 usually shoot in the 1.25 to 1.5 inch range. everything else is sub moa.
I've made a couple posts on this load, but essentially i've not recovered a bullet in any thing, big feral hogs, deer, turkey, goats, rabbits, even squirrels. I've also recovered these from sand, and had great results.
Pop - a good hunting buddy of mine uses that 225 Sierra from his .358 Win/Browning BLR on everything, especially elk. It's done real well for him. Regards, Guy
Posts: 327 | Location: Washington State, USA | Registered: 18 July 2002
That rifle might take a heavier load than my 99's. I got an email from a Western bear hunter and he gets a lot of powder into that case in his BLR. I put him onto the 225 Partition as for heavy game it seems a better choice than 250's.
I use a drop tube to get all the powder you can into that case. I would try 3031, 4895 and 4064.
For Eastern hunting I am using the 180 Speer at 2700 fps with 4198.
This cartridge has way more effect on deer than regular cartridges with the bullets I use.
I have worked up to a load of 55 gr W748 with the Nosler 225 Partition in a Ruger 77 with a 23" barrel. In this rifle this load averages 2600 fps at 53,000 psi (M43). Accuracy is about 1.5". The Sierra 225 Gamekings are slightly more accurate, but I prefer the Nosler as a slightly stouter bullet
Posts: 28 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 26 June 2002
quote:Originally posted by logger: I have worked up to a load of 55 gr W748 with the Nosler 225 Partition in a Ruger 77 with a 23" barrel. In this rifle this load averages 2600 fps at 53,000 psi (M43). Accuracy is about 1.5". The Sierra 225 Gamekings are slightly more accurate, but I prefer the Nosler as a slightly stouter bullet
Logger, I'll question this load, partner. Winchester calls for a great deal less, in all regards. 55 gr of 748 will not fit in a 358 case. It's only 57 gr of water, at overflowing. MUCH less than that, at 2.8" gives pressure signs in several guns. A 200 gr rn, with 748 powder, at 2400 is 55k cup. jeffe
[QUOTE]Originally posted by logger: [QB]I have worked up to a load of 55 gr W748 with the Nosler 225 Partition in a Ruger 77 with a 23" barrel. In this rifle this load averages 2600 fps at 53,000 psi (M43).
When I saw the post above I could not believe it. But I just got 56.5 grs using a long drop tube into a fired and not neck sized .358 Win SuperX case! This filled the case to 3/16" of the top of the neck. Since loggers rifle has a 23" bbl which is not a stock length it could be a long action 77 with a special throat also. Thus it can be done to my surprise.
However Jeffesso mentions a load of 48.5 gr which is max in the Nosler #5 for that bullet. Maybe it's not in loggers rifle but that is a lot of powder!
Yes you can get that much 748 in an original .358 case with a drop tube. I've done it. But I shoot 53 grns of 748 with the .250 speer for 2375 in my BLR and 54 grn of 748 with the .225 nosler or speer for 2460. the 200 grn hornady spire p[oint can be loaded to 2525 with 48 grns of 3031. These loads are accurate and proven in the field. HOWEVER the best powderr of all for the .358 is AA2015br( no not the new stuff xmr2015) 46 grain of the old stuff under any .225 bullet will top 2500 fps in my 20"BLR and punch one hole groups all day. If anyone has some of the old stuff they are not using, I will gladly take it off your hands ! That being said, I am the bearhunter refered to on the post. and my guide friends in Canada rave about the .358 most of them have taken everythin in canada with teirs, including moose and grizz. Just call Harold Holmes in Hudson Bay and ask him ! Good Hunting to everyone, Carl
Posts: 367 | Location: Farmington, Mo | Registered: 07 July 2002
Yes, I do use a two foot drop tube. The Ruger 77 is a short action. The OAL is 2.805 which puts the bullet .025 off the lands in this rifle. I use Federal GM 210M primers. All powder charges are individually weighed. The cartridges feed fine through the magazine. The brass has been reloaded 11 times and the primer pockets are still tight. While I moniter pressure using the Oehler 43 chronograph, I also monitor pressure by watching bolt lift, primer shape, etc. Other loads that I have tried include 48 grains of IMR 3031 (2521 fps, 56,200 psi (M43) and 48 grains of IMR 4895 (2475 fps, 54,100 psi (m43). I know that if I went with Nosler's max load for IMR 4895(49.5 gr.), pressures would hit 62,000 and yet there would be no difference seen in primer, bolt lift, etc.
Posts: 28 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 26 June 2002
I agree with .358 ,the old AA 2015 boots a 250 grn Horn out of my sav 99, just at 2400 fps. 6-8 loadings with the same cases show me the load is fine pressure wise too.
Posts: 941 | Location: VT | Registered: 17 May 2001
I have a custom Sako with a 23" stainless Silen barrel. I use 225 gr Sierra Gamekings over 48.9 grains of IMR 4320, Winchester brass and large rifle primers. This combination yields about 2500 fps and .5 - .75 inch groups at 100 yds. I have found them to be devastating on blacktail deer and pigs.
Although the box states they're for 35 Whelen, I bought a box of 225 gr NBT; unfortunately they were way too long for the Sako AII magazine.
[ 09-21-2002, 17:57: Message edited by: DOCTOR LOU ]
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001
I have a Mexican 98 small ring with a 20 inch tube. I load 48.0gr of BL-C(2) and the sierra 225 and am quite happy with the results. For game larger than deer, bear ect. I would tend to go with the 225 nosler BT. It is very stout, and works very well in my 35 Whelen improved @2830fps. Most manuals list 48.0gr of BL-C(2) also as the maximum with the 250gr bullets also. I think with the 250's the speed is about 2350fps and about 2440fps with the 225's. The 35's are great!!
Elliot, I am not sure how long your rifle's magazine is, but the Nosler BT is designed for the Whelen and is much too long for my Sako medium action magazine and most other short/medium actions. Too bad because it's a great bullet.
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001
Doctor Lou, I agree that the Nosler BT is a bit long with a short action gun. Another great but often overlooked bullet for the 358 is the hornaddy 180gr flat point. If memory serves me right, this bullet was developed for the rem 350 mag. I would think that some reloading manuals from the 80's would give listings for this bullet. I would think that you could get close to 2900fps with this bullet. This would be a load that would give you some additional range. Perhaps the NOsler partition is the be-all end-all bullet for the 358.
quote:Originally posted by snowman: I have one of the original Sav 99 Featherweights in 358. It is a dream to handle in the bush. I have had very good sucess with the 200 gr Hornady Spire pt. Used it on deer ,black bear and a moose with no problems...
Hey Pop, I see you are specifically interested in the 225gr Sierra. I've shot a few boxes of them through my 350RemMag and they are accurate, but I've not used one on Game. However, the 200gr Hornady (Part# 3510) that Snowman mentioned is an absolutely excellent bullet.
Back in the early `70s I hunted with a group of fellow MARINES and Civilians that had 6 of the M99s in 358Win amongst us. We "Pulled-Down" good old 7.62NATO ammo, reformed it into 358Win. Then we loaded those with the 200gr Hornady and some of the Pulled-Down Powder. When I left the group, the string was 66 straight 1-shot kills on Black Bears, Deer and Hogs using those Loads.
We did not have an Elk in the Southeastern NC Swamps we hunted, but from the actual "On Game Performance" that I saw, I'd gladly hunt an Elk with that same bullet in a 358Win.
So, if your rifle has problems getting a Load it likes with the 225gr Sierra, I agree with Snowman on the outstanding 200gr Hornady.
Good luck with the new rifle.
...
Hey Crock, I look for that AA2015BR Powder at every Gun Show I go to for you. I know you have been looking for it for a couple of years now. If I see any in the Carolinas, I'll get it for you.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
I've been using the 225 grain Sierra on NC Whitetails for a number of years. Anything I've hit with it goes down where it was standing! The limit for Whitetail in Eastern NC is 6. The 225 gr. Sierra has accounted for quite a number of deer for me.
My load is 47.0 grains of IMR4320 which gives me 2350fps. Not max at all. I stopped there because of the accuracy I was getting from the BLR. When I checked it last year just before the season started, I was getting 1.75 inch 3 shot groups at 175 yards (zero range). I can't ask for anything better!!!
I have a pre 64 FWT and use the Hornady 200gr with great success. Sorry I don't remember the exact load but if memory serves me the poeder is IMR 3031. The Nosler 200gr Ballistic Tip is to long a bullet for this rifle. I can't get them to fit in the magazine unless I seat them very deeply.
After learning that the 225 gr NBT was too long for my action, I went to the 225 gr Sierra boattail. I have found that it is very accurate -.5-.75" 3-shot groups at 100 yds. I am hoping to see how it performs on game such as Blacktail deer, pigs, and bear. I will also give the 180 a look. Thanks, Lou
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001
Thanks Hotcore. It's nice to know you think of me. Please keep looking. I sold Pop my best rifle and he seems a little nervious about loads. But, in all honestly almost anything works in the .358 I use two loads the .200 hornady for deer, but I'm thinking of switching to the 280 speer and the .250 speer for anything bigger. Once pop shoots an elk with a .225 or .250 he will be convinced of it's value and wonder why I parted with it. But, he knows why . Pray for my wife, she has her operation on Oct. 11. Thanks, Crock
Posts: 367 | Location: Farmington, Mo | Registered: 07 July 2002
I worked up a load of the 225 Sierra BT with 49.5gr of 748 and Win Primer. I did not check velocity but I say about 2300-2400 fps. The load shot right at an inch or so. I did not have time to go out and re-verify the load so I put it 2.75" high at 100 yds.
Today a nice antelope was taken at 258 yds at high Wyoming wind! Awesome performance! I am hooked.
BTW can you check your records and see if yo tried this combo in this rifle?
PS. God Bless and speedy recovery with the spouse.
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
I have tried 50 grains of W748 and 225 Sierra Game Kings in a Ruger 77 with a 23" barrel. I used Federal 210 M primers. I shot them over an Oehler 43 and got 2425 fps at 46,200 psi (m43).
Posts: 28 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 26 June 2002
Logger. This (49.5) was max in my BLR! This is with Federal 308 cases necked to 358. I think I am correct to guess velocities at 2300-2400. We will see Saturday!
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
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