I am looking for some load data for 45-70 loads to be used in the Marlin 1895 Guice Gun. I have some 500 grain lead bullets, some with gas checks, some without, that I would like to use. I have most of the reloading manuals and they do not provide data for the 500 gr. bullets for use in the Marlin (a few of the manuals have info for the 500 gr. for the Ruger No. 1). I have a chronograph but do not have a strain gauge. Any help on this would be appreciated.
Please feel free to Email direct if you would prefer.

Thanks,

SD Shooter

There are three distinct classes of 45-70s, and all three have very different max loads. I shot a 500-grain RCBS BPS bullet out of a friend's Remington Rolling Block from Navy Arms for a while. I used 27 grains of AA5744, lit with a CCI-200 primer. It was very mild and incredibly accurate, to the point of cutting holes at a hundred with the cast bullets.
Your guide gun will do well above that, but I thought this would be something you might plink around with at least. Throwing a slug that weighs an ounce and an eighth is going to knock down most anything it hits, no matter how fast it is going. It might be fun to load the 500s down a bit and just play with them...

May I ask why so heavy.Those things with 350 hornady FN's are devistational.

Doubtless,

Thanks for the info. Will work on that combination.

Charger,

Two years ago I went bear hunting in northern Saskatchiwan, and then drove on to Alaska. Given the Canadian regulations on the type of firearm allowed, and the fact that we were going to also end up in grizz country, I wanted a reliable repeating rifle, comfortable to carry on a sling (flat sided) and a large diameter projectile with lots of energy. After following the Marlin Big Bore forum for over a year, and doing lots of research, I landed on the 45-70. Object of the bear hunt was to not lose the bear. Object of bear self defense in Alaska was to immediately stop a bear.

So to shorten up this story, my son shot his black bear with a 350 gr. 45-70. It died after running 70 yards. Well placed shot behind the shoulder, through the lungs, out the other side.
I didn't get a bear that year. And, we did not have any bear conflicts in Alaska.

I went bear hunting again two weeks ago. 45-70 with Garrecht 540 gr. flat nose hard cast. Hit a medium size, very old sow at 60 yards. Through both lungs and the right front shoulder.
Didn't go far at all. Destroyed the shoulder.

So I have gotten really interested in the heavy loads and want to reload some for plinking, etc. Actually, about 1992, while living in Colorado, I killed two elk with my 45-70 using Rem 405 factory loads.

Don't know when, but I will definitely head back to Alaska for a full summer of fishing and camping - probably after kids are out of college. So my companion will be my Marlin guide gun.

I bought some Meister 500 grain bullets and want to play with them. But I tend to be very cautious when reloading. So I am looking for data from others that has already been tried.

Thanks for your response,

SD Shooter

I had a Marlin Guide Gun and it worked very well with 350gr. Hornady's. I got nearly complete lengthwise penitration on a bull elk at 40 yds. It also flattened a black bear at 50. My only comment was the it didn't actually expand enough. At 45-70 vel;ocities you should get plenty of penitration even with relativly soft bullets. The load I used was IMR-4198, I'm sorry but I don't have access to my load books but it was at the high end of the Marlin loads and produced over 1900fps.

I would caution you about using Winchester brass, you didn't mention brass manufacturer. I found that the case distorted at the ejector rather badly with Win. brass. I switched to Remington brass and had no problems. I assume this only shows up in heavy loads in the Marlin which doesn't support the case completely.

Rather than 500gr. jacketed bullets which might only act as solids you might try 400gr. Barnes X bullets or Originals or perhaps Hawks. These all shot well in my Marlin, recoil was vile wehn pushed over 1700fps in such a light platform. Very heavy recoil was the reason I sold the rifle.

Loaded using a 24" drop tube, a case full of Swiss 1.5fg using slight compression would be a very good bear killer. Depending on the particular batch of powder and your brass, this would probably be around 64 grs or so.

Alternatively, a case full of Goex 2fg using about 0.3" or more of compression - probably around 68 grs or so, depending on which batch of powder.

Either will give your 500 grn bullets plenty of push, and will kill anything you want to kill.

Using black powder like this, you really cannot cause many problems. You cannot over charge a bp load - it won't fit.

500 grs is about right for a .45-70, though many like the about 535 to 550 grs if you can seat them out far enough to get a decent powder charge behind them.
Brent