I am beginning to load for a new 30.06. From my past experiences I have become a firm believer that a cartridge performs best and will have the best accuracy when the round is loaded with a full case of powder. It seems to me a lot of the accuracy comes from consistent ignition.I have a pretty good assortment of powders on hand. Some being H4350, IMR4831, H4831, RL19, MRP.

I am hoping to find a few loads that shoot well in this rifle that utilize a full case of powder. I don’t want to hot rod but find some loads that are accurate, around 52,000 type pressures with the highest velocity possible around that pressure level .This past week I have researched a lot of what is available on the internet. A lot of the information available does not give % OF case fill ,velocity or pressures. I would like your 30.06 full case rifle powder experiences for best combination of accuracy/velocity/52,000 type pressures for the:
180 Grain

165 Grain

150 Grain

Good results with this load in my .30-06 Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine 20" 1:11 barrel. Excellent single set trigger. Load density < 90% maybe an exception. Nosler lists load densities. https://load-data.nosler.com/l...a/30-06-springfield/

Very nice Sako, I like it!

For the 180 gr. RL 22 works well.

I agree on RL22, I load 61grs in Winchester cases with 180gr Partitions for 2775 fps, compressed load.

Greg

I burned H4831SC in both 30/06 that I owned, and it was magic with 180 grain bullets. I think reg cut H4831 would do as well as I have used both in other cartridges and couldn't tell the difference. I always like to get around 88% loading volume in bottleneck rifle cases, or as close as I can, because that is where the sweet spot seemed to be most often

how full do you want it?
it took me 3 minutes to seat 165 A/B's on top of RL-22 in full sized Federal cases.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
how full do you want it?
it took me 3 minutes to seat 165 A/B's on top of RL-22 in full sized Federal cases.

Like LD suggested 88% is a sweet spot ,to 98% would be great.
RL 22 seems to be popular. I have MRP which is close.

up to 150's 4064
165's and heaver 4350

Case full loads that worked. 85% and higher
AA 3100 with 180's 165's and 220's
IMR 4831 with 180's 165's and 220's
Ramshot Hunter 80's 165's and 220's
Ramshot Big Game 80's 165's
H414 180's 165's and 220's

Best regards,

quote:

RL 22 seems to be popular. I have MRP which is close.

Not just close, but the same powder under different labels. Be advised, however, that RL-22/MRP has a reputation for varying from lot to lot more than most canister-grade powders. That said, it's hard to pack too much of it in a .30-06 to present pressure problems.

My elk load in a .30-06 is a full case (~60 grains) of original surplus (not H- or IMR) 4831 under a 180 grain Nosler Partition. 2775 fps in a 24.4" Sako. Also used in Africa for a half-dozen head of plains game.

I agree, a full case with light to medium compaction gets the best accuracy and highest velocity..with the powders you use..I prefer an a slightly over max load of H414 for my 30-06 hunting loads, but don't recommend it in all rifles, thats something that one has to work up to in his own rifle, as chamber pressure and velocity vary from gun to gun...

Other great options are RL-22 and RL-19 in the 30-06..I have maybe 40 pounds of old army surplus thats just like new, the stuff that Jack loved and its faster with less pressure than any of todays powder. I don't use it any more as its a stick powder and a grain cutting demon and it best to weigh every load and it gets more velocity and less pressure than any of todays powders.. BUT..I hate WEIGHING EVERY LOAD, so i pretty much go with H414 and Rl-22 that fills a case half way up the neck, and I don't need to weigh any load and Ive tested that to death a half dozen times, both are dead on every toss of the measure..

I used that 60 grs of old surplus 4831 and in one gun I used 62 grs for the same velocity and pressure..still have about 40 or more pounds of that stuff i believe, not sure, and its clean and fresh from proper storage, don't use it much anymore, I went to H414.

BTW. ever so often that 62 gr. load would push the bullet forward a tad overnight and cause feeding problems, so had to crimp or back off to 61, easier to back off to 61 so I did..with the exception of WW brass which is good with 62 grs..

You just have to shoot your boom stick and find out.

Back in the day when the 30-06 was a viable across the course cartridge, there were basically three powders that were popular: IMR 4064, IMR 4895, and IMR 4350. IMR 4064 and 4895 were appropriate for the Garand gas system, IMR 4350 is too slow.

The most common load with a 168 SMK was 47.0 grains IMR 4895 or 55 grs IMR 4350. The 30-06 pretty much disappeared before the 175 SMK’s arrived. Lots of 174FMJBT’s were fired, but they were inferior to the SMK’s at 600 yards.

Anyway, I recently took my 30-06 Mauser to CMP Talladega and shot the thing out to 600 yards, mostly with 175 SMK’s.
This is the thunderstick



100 yard zeroing the scope



The old FMJ’s actually did well at 300 yards



The 168 SMK is always great





Nothing wrong with the 175 SMK and the same load



I don’t know if it was the powder or the wind. I was moving the cross hairs around as bullets moved left and right, and shot eight was held left, and the wind dropped. However, H4350 shot very well at 300 yards.



Did well at 600 yards



This load, with IMR 4064, does not fill the case as much as H4350, but shoots well at 300 yards



And 600 yards




That left to right movement is really pick ups and let ups, more than anything else.

This was late in the day, with a first production year M70, late in the day at CMP, the winds drop.



And this is the rifle



I would say, all of my groups are equivalent in accuracy, so I cannot make any valid claim that one powder is all that much better than another. I do like the H4350 group, but I shot all that ammunition up. Ten shot groups are good, but wind changes, I flinch, and to really prove a point, I need to get up to 40 shot groups and more. I am planning on loading some 190 SMK’s to see how they do, I won’t be loading anymore 175’s with H4350 as I have an ammo can of 175’s with IMR 4064 to shoot up first.

Closing time at the range



A couple of offhand shooters

Love the pictures of your rifles and the range.
Thanks for the load data as well.

Glad to be of help. A picture is worth a thousand words, or a couple of giggles.

You may be able to tell in the couple of pictures of the offhand statues I posted, but they are built of Garand barrels, gas cylinders, receivers. Kinda of cool artworks.

Somewhere, it could have even been here, someone did a test of pressure versus velocity. The only powder that made the 30-06 holy grail of 2800 fps and kept the pressure under 60,000 with a 180gr was RL 22. That can be a problem, you get a good group and 2800, end of load development, period. You may have to get another rifle. I use 61.0gr of N560.

Most 30-06s Ive owned shot all the powders mentioned here very well indeed..The old girl is normally not all that picky if bedded properly and a good trigger..Jack O said if a 30-06 won't shoot good with IMR-4064 then its stupid..I have agree with that..I always shot H4831 of one kind or another and it worked very well, but I found H414 to be the best yet, for one reason it measures so damned accurate, doesn't cut kernals. fills a case just right with mild compaction, and all that adds to to and allready accurate gun..RL-22 gets an A plus in the 06..

I seriously doubt that report..I would suggest most of those are 54000 to 55,000 PSI or less and any good 06 on a proper action can handle that until hellfreezes over, in fact I do know some experts that play with their 06s in the 60.000 PSI range and so far they have had no problems in the last 40 years, I don't borrow their ammo btw, just a precaution on my part.

So far the Mauser 30.06 loves 150 grain Nosler Accubonds and is crazy accurate. Probably will not even need to try another bullet. Also seems H4350 operates at lower pressures than many of the other “30.06” powders. I use a .300Wea and .300H&H and shoot heavier bullets out of those so the 30/06 150 grain Accubond fills a niche for me.
Still going to spend some more range time and try some 165 grains, just to make sure.

Thanks to all for the replies and your results.

I have three 30.06s now , loaded for six at one stage. The sons reload their own now. And of course the donors as they pass through. Nothing too untoward except one rifle, The Canoe Rifle, a BSA factory sporter P-17. The other two 30.06s, a post '63 M70 and a M700 both shoot the some load of N-560 at 2730 and 2740 respectively. For the Canoe Rifle I try a load very given every where. standard load of 56.0gr?? I think, maybe less, , of IMR 4350 and a 180 Accubond. Very snappy, 2900 fps. I cut back to a starting load , even then I'm at 2700 . 24" barrel. The moral of the story start low, you run a cross an odd ball, even in 30-06.

quote:

of IMR 4350 and a 180 Accubond. Very snappy, 2900 fps. I cut back to a starting load , even then I'm at 2700 . 24" barrel.

you was getting 2900 FPS from IMR4350 wow.. MAX load of 56 grains of 4350 is usually around 2750

Wow wasn't exactly my words, chuckle, a little closer to holy s*** . When I bought it at a gun show the vender said his dad hadn't liked the recoil. My thought at the time was, what recoil ??, these are heavy rifles and it's only a 30-06. But I guess a 220grRN, the common hunting bullet of that time, would kick.

It was lesson to me, start low and work up over a chrony.

On some cartridges I have done load development, with some powders full cases haven't generated enough pressure for the hoped for velocity.. Powders have pressure sweet spots. Looking at Nosler loads for 130gr 260 Rem. I noticed the most accurate load for IMR 4350 was also the heaviest charge and a 100% fill. I know I'm a bit slow.

Noticed you had a 150 grain bullet and I never provided any guidance.

I did some load development with 150 Federal Fusions, which are a boat tail bullet, in my Ruger #1.



I took the load from a gunwriter and shot it at 100 yards, and it did exceptionally well in this rifle. And it moved smoking hot.




I had previously worked up this load in a SAKO Finnbear

SAKO Finnbear 24" Barrel

150 gr Fed Fusion 57.0 grs AA4350 wtd, lot 12997 WCC54 CCI #34 OAL 3.30" greased bullets & cases
15 Jan 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2707
Std Dev = 25
ES = 82
High = 2741
Low = 2659
N = 10

150 gr Fed Fusion 59.0 grs AA4350 wtd lot 12997 Hornady cases Fed210S OAL 3.30" greased bullets & cases

15 Jan 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2750
Std Dev = 19
ES = 65
High = 2780
Low = 2715
N = 10

150 gr Fed Fusion 59.0 grs AA4350 wtd lot 12997 W/W cases Fed210S OAL 3.30" greased bullets & cases

9 Feb 2018 T = 59 °F

Ave Vel = 2772
Std Dev = 15
ES = 44
High = 2794
Low = 2750
N = 7


I have a lot of H4350, so I loaded up 60 grs of H4350 with the 150 Federal Fusions and took the thing to CMP Talladega to shoot out to 600 yards. I bumped up the AA 45350 load by one grain, because in the past, my lot of H4350 always took one grain more to equal my IMR 4350 velocities.

It did shoot well at 300 yards



and 600 yards



but, oppsie, 60 grs of H4350 was too hot for the gun and cartridge



I completely disassembled the Ruger #1 bolt, "reassembled" everything, loaded up a bunch of 150 Federal Fusion bullets with 57.0 grains of H4350. The next time I went to Talladega, I found the rifle would not go bang.

Turns out, there is another breech block spring that will fit in the same space as the firing pin spring. But, it is thicker and won't let the firing pin protrude out of the breech block! I only found that out once I disassembled everything again, and switched the springs back to their correct locations.

I have not taken the rifle again and tested the 57 grs of H4350 with the 150 Federal Fusions. I am hopeful the groups will be about as good, all the way out to 600 yards.

I do think any velocities around 2800 fps are only moving that fast due to over pressure conditions. Mine you, this rifle has a 26" barrel. I can't see anyone pushing a 150 bullet that fast in a 22 inch tube and not be pushing 70,000 psia.

The While I use velocity to check pressure, saying velocity=pressure isn't quite true, it's the energy. We are getting into physics and math here, the energy is the area under the time/pressure curve line. A sharp short spike may be over pressure but lack the energy for higher velocity, thus being slower. If we use a slower burning powder, we extend the time, allowing for a greater area without higher pressures, so more velocity. Factory 180gr is listed at 2700fps The companies are going to use the least amount of power for safe pressure, because it's cheaper. So by filling the case with a slower (and more expensive) burning powder like RL 22 we can achieve the 2800 without over pressure. The other thing is 30-06 is listed as 60,000psi in deference to older rifle actions were as modern magnums reach up to 65,000psi.

All said and done, I doubt that anyone can get a safe 2900 FPS out of a 30-06 with a 180 gr bullet, Ive loaded for it for years and I can get 2800 if I push the string, but Ive blown primers with that on ocassion and suffered case head seperation, it works in one rifle and not the others..

My hunting loads today in any 30-06 max out at 2750 give or take a tad, and 2700 is my load with the 180s. BTW I can get barely 2600 to 2700 with a 200 gr. Accubond or partition, and thats my favorite max hunting load..a blown primer or head seperation can end a hunt pronto..I use WW brass and 210 fed primers..

My 180gr hunting load does 2740 in one rifle and 2730 in the other. Both factory rifles with 22" barrels. Same exact load BTW<

With the advent of load cells, fast barrels are a pure myth. However slow , high pressure barrels are very real.

One of my 06s is a pre 64 fwt. the other a win mod 54 with the 24 " barrel,schnable forend and both shoot the same loads and get the same velocity!!! even though one has a 22 inch barrel and the other a 24" barrel and that pleases me..These days my old surplus 4831, clean and well stored isn't getting used as it cuts grains and have to weigh every load..RL-22 and H414 fill a case properly get me the same velocity but with more pressure but safe pressure..