Current load, using same charge of RL19 shoots Nos. 200 gr. ST's and 210 NP's within 1" POI @ 2900 fps. and sub moa with either bullet, but having a problem finding RL19 locally.

Have a good supply of H450 and have decided to try it with 200 gr. Nos. ST's.

Hodgdon's manual shows 74.0-79.0 gr w/200's &
71-76 w/210's so loaded up a ladder test starting @ 73.5 gr in .5 gr increments up to 76 gr. Reached 100% case capacity @ 73 gr. w/ the 200 gr. ST (it is a boattail bullet), everything over that is compressed.

It seems that I have read somewhere that it is not a good idea to compress ball powders, but can't find it now.

Anyone have any experience w/compressed loads w/H450 or other ball powders?

Regards,
hm

No one using H450?

Regards,
hm

some ball powders work better with a slight compression aa 2700 and aa 3100 come to mind right off hand.
h-414 does too.

I've heard that WMR powder and H-450 were just different lots of the same powder. Not sure if that's true but H-414 and W-760 fall into that category.
What does strike me as very strange is both powders disappeared from the scene at just about the same time. I wonder why, but I also have a theory which I will not divulge. At least not yet.
I've never used H-450 but I've used a lot of WMR and it works well in some cartridges and like crap in others, the .338 mag. being one of the "like crap" series.
I will say that WMR has proven to be the about the best powder I've ever used in my .270 Win. and .300 Win. mag. So far, it has sucked big time in the 30-06.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
some ball powders work better with a slight compression aa 2700 and aa 3100 come to mind right off hand.
h-414 does too.

Well, guess we'll see about compressing H450 next week @ the range.

quote:

I've heard that WMR powder and H-450 were just different lots of the same powder. Not sure if that's true but H-414 and W-760 fall into that category.
What does strike me as very strange is both powders disappeared from the scene at just about the same time.

So far, it has sucked big time in the 30-06.
Paul B.

Never used WMR but used H450 behind 190 gr. SMK's for long range (600-1000 yd) competition. Here's a 3" spotter that was placed in my first shot @ 600 yards showing the subsequent 14 shots all hit the spotter. Rifle was Pre-64 Mod 70 Target rifle w/iron sights fired from prone position with sling (no rest).



The 2.61" is not actual group size since the spotter is placed in each subsequent shot, but aim point is always the same. The 15th shot hit the spindle holding spotter in target, so that particular load shot very well in my '06.

If you can use the heavier bullet, you might give it a try in yours but work up as IIRC it was a relatively heavy load in my rifle. I used H4895 with 168 gr. MK's for short range (200 & 300 yds).

Regards,
hm

H450 was my favorite powder for the .338 until they discontinued it. Seems to me it came and went a couple of times after I quit using it. It worked really well with 250 gr. bullets without being heavily compressed.
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
H450 was my favorite powder for the .338 until they discontinued it. Seems to me it came and went a couple of times after I quit using it. It worked really well with 250 gr. bullets without being heavily compressed.
C.G.B.

This supports my theory that H450 may work best w/heavier bullets. I worked up a pretty good load for 243 WSSM w/100 gr. bullets using H450. Both the 30-06/190 gr. load and the 243 WSSM loads were pretty much a case full of powder but neither one was compressed.

Regards,
hm

quote:

Originally posted by hm1996:


Here's a 3" spotter that was placed in my first shot @ 600 yards showing the subsequent 14 shots all hit the spotter. Rifle was Pre-64 Mod 70 Target rifle w/iron sights fired from prone position with sling (no rest).



The 2.61" is not actual group size since the spotter is placed in each subsequent shot, but aim point is always the same. The 15th shot hit the spindle holding spotter in target, so that particular load shot very well in my '06.

If you can use the heavier bullet, you might give it a try in yours but work up as IIRC it was a relatively heavy load in my rifle. I used H4895 with 168 gr. MK's for short range (200 & 300 yds).

Regards,
hm

Did I read this correctly......."you" shot 15 shot a 1/2 MOA group (<3 inches) at 600 yards with iron sights?? Dude that is some shooting.......???

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:

quote:

Originally posted by hm1996:


Here's a 3" spotter that was placed in my first shot @ 600 yards showing the subsequent 14 shots all hit the spotter. Rifle was Pre-64 Mod 70 Target rifle w/iron sights fired from prone position with sling (no rest).



The 2.61" is not actual group size since the spotter is placed in each subsequent shot, but aim point is always the same. The 15th shot hit the spindle holding spotter in target, so that particular load shot very well in my '06.

If you can use the heavier bullet, you might give it a try in yours but work up as IIRC it was a relatively heavy load in my rifle. I used H4895 with 168 gr. MK's for short range (200 & 300 yds).

Regards,
hm

Did I read this correctly......."you" shot 15 shot a 1/2 MOA group (<3 inches) at 600 yards with iron sights?? Dude that is some shooting.......???

Yes, you read correctly. I shot the spotter pictured while competing in an NRA approved highpower rifle match. NRA rules mandate iron sights only and no "artificial support". As stated, there was no way to measure the actual group on target face, since the 15th shot hit the wooden spindle resulting in an 8" hole in the target. The spotter was all that remained and currently resides on my loading room wall .

Regards,
hm

Like I said that is "some good shooting".

A lot of guys probably couldn't shoot much better than that with a scope.....600yds, iron sights and no support. I would have lost a ton of money betting against that group.

So did your group win?

I'd have that target stuck on the refrigerator...Congratulations!

quote:

A lot of guys probably couldn't shoot much better than that with a scope.

Lots of folks are not aware of the capability of iron sights and sell them short. It is not difficult to shoot very good groups with a good aperature front and rear sight and prone with a good sling can be an extremely stable platform.

quote:

So did your group win?

I was holdin' hard that day and did win the match, but that 15th shot (in a 20 shot string) actually cost me a point or two. While the target was in the pits for repair, conditions got a bit funky and it took me a couple more shots to settle in again.

quote:

I'd have that target stuck on the refrigerator...Congratulations!

Thanks. Hmmmm, refrigerator, now that's a thought............

Regards,
hm

With heavy bullets (300 gr.)H-1000 has worked best for me in the .338 Win. making 2500 FPS a good using max load. Based on that I would suspect that H-450 has some possibilities, but I see no reason to work up loads for a discontinued powder.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Based on that I would suspect that H-450 has some possibilities, but I see no reason to work up loads for a discontinued powder.

Thanks Ray, never tried H1000, but H450 combined w/190 gr. SMK's was my favorite load for 600-1000 yd. competition. Arthritis cut my HP comp. days short and left me w/nearly 24# of H450 on the shelf, thus the interest in finding a good use for it.

Found a good load with it in 243 WSSM using 100 gr. bullets, but I may not last long enough to use it up there .

Regards,
hm

I used to shoot a lot of H450, but ran out of it years ago. It was a great powder in a .338 with 250 grain bullets and heavier.

H-450 had a burning rate very similar to H4831. However, there are significant differences in the way double-based ball powders and single-based stick powders behave vis-a-vis case capacity, bullet weight, and pressure range. That said, since H4831 has always been my pick with all bullet weights (200+) in the .338, I would think that you could develop a load with H-450 which would yield good velocities combined with acceptable accuracy.

I don't think that mild compression would have any deliterious effects on H-450.

quote:

However, there are significant differences in the way double-based ball powders and single-based stick powders behave vis-a-vis case capacity, bullet weight, and pressure range.

Yes, I suppose so. But, Stonecreek, would you mind expounding on that? I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.