I just attempted to purchase a set of .458 Lott Hornady dies from Cabellas, but when I went to check out they are classed as restricted

Has our world gone crazy, why would dies be restricted, there pretty harmless without a rifle (chambered as such), brass, bullets, primers, & and press ??

Also Midway does not do international orders.

PC
Try http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/rapidfirejune.asp
or if that dosen't work e-mail me.
muskrat
live free or die!

Muskrat,

thankyou for the offer I may need to take you up on it. I will just see what Cabela's e-mails back to me about the matter. Midsouth has a message saying even brass cases need an export licence

The RCBS dies in .458 lott are to dear. Cabela's had the Hornady .458 Lott dies for about $21.00US

PC
You might take a look at Graf&Sons.

www.grafs.com

This is just bloody insane!!

[ 07-26-2003, 17:52: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

p.c
graf &sons offer excellent service and can export them i just got some 416 rem and 9.3 x62 dies ...no export permit needed for dies drop me a line i may be able to help you
daniel

PC,

I contacted one of my wholesale suppliers and they have two sets of Hornaday dies for .458 Lott, $34.67 per set plus shipping wholesale cost. If you can't get them elsewhere email me and I will set you up.

Busterchops

Even before 9/11,brass, primers,bullets and gun parts over $100US,needed export permits from the States.They didn't include powder luckly.

Yeah, this whole restrictions thing has gotten completely out of hand. Imagine what a terrorist could do with a set of 458 Lott dies. Why he could, er, ah, well, it would be bad let me assure you, soon the world would be overun with 458 Lott ammo from terrorist organisations and then where would we be? Why next they might start reloading 404 Jeffries or gasp! 375 H&H. Sheesh! - Dan

Gentlemen,

Cabelas is full of shit, they have always been full of shit. Do not believe what the low-level order flunkies tell you, just go somewhere else.

Someone should email Hornady, RCBS, and a few others to tell them about this supposed regulation. Likely some moron civil servant in the Homeland Security dept. told a lackey at Cabelas, "yup, if it's gun related, you need one of them permits."

H. C.

Maybe some of you Aussies or Canucks can fill me in: who is it that is coming up with all these bullclinton restrictions, et cetera? Is it your guys telling our guys to keep our stuff out of your country or is it our guys letting your guys dictate export policy to us? Somebody's ass is black somewhere! I WANT THE TRUTH!!

Thanks Folks.

I just placed an order with Grafs and it went through so hopefully I will have my .458 Lott dies soon !!

That means I will be forced to hurry up with my Lott project against my will of course

Thanks for the links and offers for help, as usual everyone on this sight is helpful and preapred to go out of there way testament to the top bunch of blokes that post here

Dan your post was amusing.


[ 07-27-2003, 04:35: Message edited by: PC ]

Maybe, because the dies are similar in dimensions to a rifle chamber, they think the terrorists are going to make 458 zip guns with them. They could even improvise sights using the screw heads on a pair of locking rings. I want to be there when Osama shoots one of those.

H. C.

A very quick acquisition peep sight with the lockin ring crubb screw taken out

Thanks PC. I believe this comes from the security act instated in the US a little while back. Some firearms related items became restricted (ie: anyone outside the US needs an EXPORT permit from the US gov't, to get an export permit, you have to have an import permit, which at least in Canada anyway, never was required or existed before this new regualtion). I'm not sure what all falls under the ruling, i've heard a lot of different versions (barrels, scopes, over $100 etc) It really seems to depend on what the people at the company you are dealing with were told. The BATF website should have some real data on this, we'll have to check there. - Dan

Dan,

well hopefully I get my dies from Grafs. If I get someone here in Oz to order them they will peut a cut on them and then the price just gets stupid.

These issues could be costing the American economy a lot of $$.

Between the BATF and the homeland security,how are terrorist going to use dies of any caliber to do anything they couldn't do by walking into any Wallmart or gunshop in the U.S. ? i haven't noticed any shortage of ammo in this country? An just how many terrorist would be carrying 458 Lotts?
Would it not be better to let us all arm our selves to the teeth and carry any and all guns we want to protect our own selves? I know i always feel safer when carring a couple of guns.Do you think any goverment agency is going to stop and attack by any terrorist groups??? Not bloody likely,they haven't did jack so far to protect anyone!Besides that we could use more armed citizens in this country!Why at the C.M.P. last week, they had thousands of good old guns for sale.Bullshit! The taxpayers paid for them once, so for every year of W2 forms you can show they should have to GIVE you a weapon along with a case of ammo!As long as you are a tax paying citizen.Think we all would be safer then and have some good old military weapons to shoot in the bargain.works for me!
muskrat
live free or die!

Rootbeer. The truth. I just returned from U.S. Customs (15 miles from here) It is unlawful to export any quantity of firearms,ammunition,or firearm parts or accessories without export permits. This applies to private treaty or commercial transactions. I asked this question of them because I bought a 300 Weatherby at WalMart in Az. at Christmas and left it with my Dad. He was going to bring it up in Aug.
It would appear there is a grey area in the ammunition and acc. area, but firearms for sure need export permit.Mark

Would this apply to Antiques? As Antiques are not considered firearms by the CGA or NFA, and are not regulated.

Rootbeer,
It is hard to say who came up with the idea initially as conflicting information abounds. Also there are numerous stories for the reason.
Some say Canada was placed on the restricted export list because they sold some AR15s to Iran or Libya and only the US is allowed to do this.
Others say Canada was placed on the restricted export list because the Canadian government wanted it that way.
The third explanation is that this is just another example of bureaucracy out of control and regulations are lobbied for, then enforced simply as a means of empire building and job security.
All these reasons are entirely believable but the last one is probably closest to the truth. US bureacrats may be limited in the amount of gun control they can impose on their own citizens, or I should say residents, so they are widening their loop by restricting residents of other, traditionally friendly, countries. Regards, Bill.

So will I get the dies I ordered from Grafs ??.

It never came up with a "restricted" slogan upon finalizing my order.

Milosmate,

I suppose I will find out soon enough wether I get them.

Gentlemen,

If you think .458 Lott dies travelling the world without export permits will result in security issues, wait until .577/.450 Martini Henry dies get out there. The terrorists will have truly dangerous and deadly weapons.

Another member and I have been looking for a set of Martini Henry .577/.450 dies from a supplier in the United Kingdom. Often the M-H's are not true .458 and a UK die maker made odd calibres.

The die maker in the UK was tracked down but is no longer in business.

The reason?

Exporting .577/.450 dies is prohibited as it is a military calibre.

The law?

It has been on the statute books for over a hundred years, but was recently enforced to put out of business a die maker which was sending their dies OS .

God forbid if terrorists get hold of a shipment of .577/.450's Martini Henry rifles AND get hold of dies. IMAGINE the havoc and mayhem they will create!!!!!!!!!!!!

The world truly has gone insane.


PS Time to start digging them up again. The rainy day is here.

[ 07-27-2003, 18:01: Message edited by: NitroX ]

THey honestly enforced a law just to put a bloke out of buisness ??

That is just a down right bastards act.

I'm 3 months into this now and still don't have my order from Sinclair. First I had to get the forms from the capital, Ottawa. Then I filled the forms out with what I was buying (cases and bullets), sent it back to Ottawa to get it stamped. Then I sent it to Sinclairs. They have to get the export license for me from the US State Department ($25.US). When it's returned to Sinclair, they will complete my order and send it to me. Nothing to it. Hell, it won't be any longer than about 6 months total. Actually you can thank Bubba Clinton for this little piece of legislation. He initiated it, but it didn't take effect right away. That ass is out of office and still causing heartache. Someone ought to cut his pecker off so he'd be brain dead. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

PC,
Your dies will arrive from Grafs in about a week depending on what shipping option you took. Grafs are also pretty sensitive on what they put on their box as a Customs declaration. I asked them to put "dies" and they put "hand tools" which I thought appropriate. Customs will open them and that's about it.
Anything over US$100 is supposed to have export permits (apparently) however stuff ordered from Brownells (for example) now shows a US$5 export permit charge on the invoice even if you only ordered cleaning brushes. One 'smith was charged an export permit charge from the US on a reamer, I wasn't. Perhaps the difference is whether it goes to a business or a private address??
Either way I think that since Sept 11th, much confusion abounds and both officials and retailers are playing it safe and conservative.

NitroX: Are you seeing the pictures out of the Solomon Islands? Seems the Martini-Henry is still alive and kicking.
Cheers...
Con

[ 07-28-2003, 04:19: Message edited by: Con ]

NitroX,
Regarding the 577-450 MH dies. I guess you may well have tried NDFS in the UK who changed hands a few years ago & promptly went out of business.

Well they are back in operation now (with new owners) & they a couple of types of 577-450 MH dies (different for paper patched & cast lead bullets). The e-mail addresss is ndfs@pwm-sales.co.uk

If it turns out you need a paperwork to get them into Oz I know a dealer who's got the correct export permit & is deals a lot with your part of the world (e-mail me direct).

A 3 die set is about �62 plus �6.50 for the shell holder (exc VAT which you should avoid paying on an export).

I've just had a set of dies from them - it's good to see them back.

NitroX,
I have a reloading kit made by Westley Richards.
It is marked "Martini Henry" and is a complete little outfit made to screw onto a wagon tailgate.
It contains a 450 cal bullet mould with adjacent sizing collet, and the case sizing is done with a turnscrew. All the operations are contained within this quite comprehensive little machine.
The whole kit is about 12-14" long, 2.5" wide and 8" high.
Not the fastest thing to work with, but I can imagine a pioneer sitting around the fire methodically reloading while the family watch the bushmans television and listen to the night sounds.
Damn, I wish old guns and accoutrements could talk!

I can't believe no one replied "You can't handle the truth!" to my post wherein I wrote I WANT THE TRUTH! Do you guys ever watch movies or just go out and shoot all day?

As someone else has so truely stated - "Nothing is safe as long as the legislature is in session". As long as there is a bureaucracy that is not directly answerable to the public and is self rewarded by increasing its own activities we will suffer the consequences.
As a historical perspective; the main reason the various 470, 465; 425 nitro express cartridges even exist is due to the the british government outlawing the private manufacture and sale of rifles and ammunition using 458 diameter bullets. The rationale, as I understand it, was that the terrorists of the day would pull the bullets from the cartridges and use the powder and bullets to reload military 450 martini cases for rifles they might have( this was a major military rifle around at that time ). Im not sure where they thought they were going to get the primers from though. So there is a long standing tradition of stupidity being finely upheld here.

[ 08-02-2003, 20:12: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]