What am I missing here? I have always wondered why no one makes carbide dies for bottle-neck rifle cases?

What you're missing is; you still have to use lube! BN cases are tapered. Shoving any tapered object into a tapered hole causes it to lock up, that's the main function of the lube we use.

Dillon makes carbide FL dies for .223 and .308, at a hundred bucks per copy, and you don't get away from the lube, it don't make sense. They're mainly for commercial loaders that may wear out a steel die.

Have you ever used these Dillon dies or are you just speculating???
What you are missing is that a straight wall case with NO taper causes more friction/binding than a tapered case. On a tapered case, even a bottle-neck, any movement downward on the case will loosen the case in the die. Same reasoning behind the NPT vs. NPS threads for pipe vs. fittings.
I have no problem with lubing the bodies on case with any cartridge, however on my two WSM rifles I have found that they both must have Full-Length resized cases to function properly.
Because of the sharp shoulder angle the cases get dimpled on the shoulders with any of the modern lubes I have used that includes the sprays. It would be nice to have a carbide die so as to not have to lube the necks/mouths of the cases.

Any time that I've gotten dimples on the shoulder it was because I used too much lube. The lube has no where to go and will then dimple the shoulder. I just recently FL sized 300 WSM for a friend of mine and I had no issues with dimpled cases. I used Forster dies but I dont think that it makes any difference what kind of sizing die is used. It could be possible that you have some lube accumulated in the die. Swab out your sizing die really good to see if that helps.

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Have you ever used these Dillon dies or are you just speculating???

Straight from their site'

Dillon Three-Die Rifle Die Sets include a sizing/ depriming die, a bullet seating die and a taper crimp die. />Sizing/Depriming Die
The sizing/depriming die is full-length, to minimum tolerances, sizing cases down to function in semi- and full-automatic firearms. We strongly suggest that a headspace case gage be used to correctly adjust the size die.
For high volume users, such as commercial reloaders, law enforcement agencies, and high power or service rifle competitors, we also offer .223 and .308 die sets with a full-length carbide sizing die. Lubrication is still required, but the increased scratch resistance and die longevity of carbide are of great benefit to these groups of users.
The depriming assembly includes a carbide expander ball for "squeak-free," effortless neck expansion. This expander ball is located in the middle of the depriming stem to take advantage of superior initial leverage for easier extraction.
In the event of a stuck case, the design of the depriming assembly allows it to function as a stuck case remover.


A straight wall carbide die only sizes at the rim of the die. I don't believe there is any contact above the carbide but I'm to lazy to walk upstairs and check for sure.

I believe the main reason is expense. Dies for straight walled cases only use a small ring of carbide, bottle necked or tapered cases require a full carbide insert, which costs a lot more to manufacture.
C.G.B.

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Because of the sharp shoulder angle the cases get dimpled on the shoulders with any of the modern lubes I have used that includes the sprays. It would be nice to have a carbide die so as to not have to lube the necks/mouths of the cases.

My wildcats have a 40 deg shoulder, I use sizing wax on the body ONLY and have never stuck one or left a dimple that wasn't caused by lube left in the die.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:

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Because of the sharp shoulder angle the cases get dimpled on the shoulders with any of the modern lubes I have used that includes the sprays. It would be nice to have a carbide die so as to not have to lube the necks/mouths of the cases.

My wildcats have a 40 deg shoulder, I use sizing wax on the body ONLY and have never stuck one or left a dimple that wasn't caused by lube left in the die.

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Yes, it's the body of the case that gets stuck in the dies, and that is not what poses a problem. If the necks are dry, you run the potential problem of possible neck distortion as the case comes down. I don't turn my case necks.
So, you don't use anything on the necks/case mouths? No squeaking, scratching, etc. You leave them dry?

I've tried the RCBS Case Slick stuff and let it dry 2-3 minutes and same thing, dimples on the shoulders and it is only with my WSM cases.

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I've tried the RCBS Case Slick stuff and let it dry 2-3 minutes and same thing, dimples on the shoulders and it is only with my WSM cases.

No lube dents with Imperial, et al, if it's applied correctly and that includes necks/shoulders.

Carbide pistol dies use a ring of carbide at the bottom of the die to size the case to a cylinder (even if the case should be a slight taper, the cylinder is close enough).

Rifle cartridges (even the straight walled 45-70) have much more taper, so a cylinder is not close enough. So the tapered inside of the die contacts the tapered body all at once, with much more surface area in contact, and therefore much more friction. Thus lubrication is still recommended, even with carbide rifle dies.

While the carbide ring requires force over the entire length of inserting the case into the die, the rifle die only needs force for the last little bit.

Andy

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So, you don't use anything on the necks/case mouths? No squeaking, scratching, etc. You leave them dry?

I use mica on the inside of the neck. I have no squeaking. However most of my dies are custom to match my brass and chamber. I'll try and remember to pay attention to a factory reload next time. I actual use Hornady Unique lube. Tap of my finger loads up enough to lube for 5 or 6 case. I give the case a twist and off I go.

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I actual use Hornady Unique lube.

Good stuff too. Unique is a virtual clone of Imperial so the results are virtually the same.

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Originally posted by cgbach:
I believe the main reason is expense. Dies for straight walled cases only use a small ring of carbide, bottle necked or tapered cases require a full carbide insert, which costs a lot more to manufacture.
C.G.B.

It sounds like C.B.G. has the only logical answer to the original question.----Cost

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Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

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I've tried the RCBS Case Slick stuff and let it dry 2-3 minutes and same thing, dimples on the shoulders and it is only with my WSM cases.

No lube dents with Imperial, et al, if it's applied correctly and that includes necks/shoulders.

x2, I used imperial sizing wax for the first time a week ago, love the stuff, told my brother to toss his RCBS case lube pad as it's no longer gonna be used!

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Originally posted by CoyoteKiller82:

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Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

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I've tried the RCBS Case Slick stuff and let it dry 2-3 minutes and same thing, dimples on the shoulders and it is only with my WSM cases.

No lube dents with Imperial, et al, if it's applied correctly and that includes necks/shoulders.

x2, I used imperial sizing wax for the first time a week ago, love the stuff, told my brother to toss his RCBS case lube pad as it's no longer gonna be used!

x3. When I found Imperial Wax, I ditched every other kind of case lube. Also, I use powdered graphite for necks, inside and out. I only run the Imperial 3/4 of the way up the case body to the shoulder, so I don't get any shoulder dimpling.

Carbide bushing neck sizing dies would be nice.

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Originally posted by 86thecat:
Carbide bushing neck sizing dies would be nice.

Why not simply pay the extra couple bucks (over the price of a plain steel bushing) and get the TiN coated bushings?
No need to pay a 10x premimum for OD-ID ground carbide that will shatter the first time you fumble finger it to the floor.

Have never been impressed with TiN coating on metal cutting tools. Does it function well without case lubricant and does the thin application last on die bushings?

The truth came out about the wax lube - don't use it past the shoulder says a couple. Any lube can do that. The problem is the neck/shoulder area on MY WSM cases. I still think either carbide dies would work fine even if you would have to lube just the lower end. You would think one of the die makers could/would have carbide dies made in China for cheap. Hell, the wife buys my Curr dog rawhide cheweys that are made in China. Of course then they would have to mark it up 1000% and make them un-affordable.