Hello, I have a new rifle sako trg 22 .308.
I use ammunition Norma Diamond lines 168gr
I also reload sierra hpbt 168, with case Norma

I am looking the measure of throat barrel( freebore).

Can some owner of you give me their data?

Thanks a lot from SPAIN

MADRID, It is a little hard to define exactly the measurement you are seeking. It will vary from rifle to rifle, including one TRG 22 in .308 to another. I think you need to order a few simple tools and make the measurement of your specific rifle. If you are seeking some specific data, such as what the distance to the lands of your rifle's barrel is, or what a safe cartridge overall lenght can be, I can tell you that on the 2 TRG's in 308 that I have worked with, we set up the COL based on a length we wanted for the completed rounds to fit into the magazine as we wanted. In both cases, after determining the COL in this fashion, the bullet was a good distance from the lands.

Good Luck--Don

Thank you very much for all your information, as you said this vary from one rifle to another rifle. The throat barrel´s change between two different rifle TRG and also in an unic TRG with it use in the time.I bougth a RCBS MIC tool but the measurement that I've obtain I think is extrange, that's why I'm looking for another refereces.

Could you explain me when you say that "the distance to lands of your rifle's barrel" what is that you really mean, because I don´t understand you very well. (sorry but my English is not very good)

And also I would be very gratefull if you tell me your experiences about TRGS IN 308.

Thank you.

Hey Madrid, Each rifle is unique or different in the length of the Throat (distance to the Lead). What I would recommend you focus on is the length of the Cartridge for the Bullet to just "Kiss-the-Lands". Once you determine that distance, you need to see if the Cartridge will fit in the magazine.

If the Cartridge does fit, you are then OK. If not, you need to Seat the Bullet deeper until the Cartridge will fit within your magazine.

And you generally do not need to buy anything if you have a Cleaning Rod and a Flat Tipped Jag.
---

Seating Depth can be found in a number of ways. Some folks like to use a special tool made by Stoney Point and others, but I’ve used the old Cleaning Rod Method for years and it still works great for me. You will want to repeat this entire Process each time you open a new box of Bullets, even if it is the exact same type and weight.

You will need:
1. A long Cleaning Rod or Dowel Rod. If using a Dowel Rod, substitute it where I am discussing the Cleaning Rod.
2. A Flat Tipped Jag.(Not needed if using a Dowel Rod.)
3. A 0.001" capable set of Calipers.
4. A roll of Tape, masking tape works fine.
5. A single Set-Up Bullet.
6. An item to hold the Set-Up Bullet against the Lands.
7. The rifle.
8. A small piece of paper.

A. Screw the Flat Tipped Jag into the Cleaning Rod. I have some made of Brass that had a sharp point on the end which I filed off just for this. Or use the Dowel Rod.
B. With the Rifle unloaded and the Bolt closed, slide the Cleaning Rod in the muzzle until the Jag touches the Bolt Face.
C. Place a single wrap of Tape around the Cleaning Rod(or Dowel) so the front edge of the Tape is against the Muzzle.
D. Remove the Cleaning Rod and remove the Bolt from the rifle if it is a Bolt Action. It is a Lever or Semi-auto just open the Bolt.
E. Drop the Set-Up Bullet point first into the Chamber.
F. Reinsert the Cleaning Rod in the Muzzle and slide it down to the Set-Up Bullet while holding something against the Bullet Base(item 5). Depending on the diameter of the Bullet, you might be able to use a wooden pencil, an old cartridge case with the mouth slightly crimped closed or a loaded cartridge to hold the Set-Up Bullet in position.
G. Take your 0.001" capable set of Calipers and measure the distance from front edge of the Tape to the Muzzle.
H. Record the measurement on a small piece of paper and Tape it to the Set-Up Bullet.

That measurement gives you the Overall Cartridge Length(OCL) for the Set-Up Bullet to just Kiss-the-Lands. Keep the Set-Up Bullet separate from the others because you will use it to properly adjust the Seating Die later on. I just put it in the Die Box to keep it separated.

Converting Overall Cartridge Length(OCL) to Overall Die Length(ODL)

It is important to understand that all Bullets in a box are not the same exact Length. This is due to minute variations in the amount of material being formed into the Bullet. Fortunately the distance from the Point on the Ogive that makes contact with the Lands to the Bullet Base is normally very accurate.

Most Seating Die Stems are cupped deep enough so the Bullet Tip does not make contact with the Seating Stem. Some of the Super Sleek Plastic Tip Bullets do touch the Seating Stem and this may or may not be a problem. The main thing is to have all the Bullets Seated so the Point on the Ogive that makes contact with the Rifle Lands is the same distance from the Case Head from cartridge to cartridge.

You can make a Dummy Cartridge with no Primer and no Powder using the Set-Up Bullet if you want to, but it is really not necessary unless you intend to Crimp the Bullets. When Crimping the Bullets, it will save a lot of time to have a Dummy from Step #8 below. For consistency, all Cases should be Trimmed to the proper length, deburred and chamfered.

1. Take a Primed case that has the Powder in it and insert it into the Press Shell Holder and raise the Ram.
2. With the Seating Die out of the Press, screw the Seating Stem all the way up.
3. Screw the Seating Die into the Press until you feel it make contact with the Case and back it up ½ turn.
4. Screw the Seating Die Lock Ring down to touch the Press. If you do not intend to Crimp the Case, you can snug-up the Lock Ring Set Screw. Make sure you can still unscrew and reseat the Sizing Die to the same depth. It is critical for the Lock Ring not to move on the Seating Die so you can always screw the Seating Die into the same position. If you do desire to Crimp the Bullet, do not tighten the Set Screw and make sure you make a Dummy Cartridge. Crimping will be done in a separate Step.
5. Lower the Ram, place the Set-Up Bullet atop the Case and raise the Ram.
6. Screw the Seating Stem in until it touches the Set-Up Bullet, lower the ram slightly, screw the Seating Stem in a bit more and raise the ram.
7. Remove the Cartridge and measure the OCL. Repeat #6 and #7 until the OCL is the exact same as what you measured with the Cleaning Rod.
8. Place the Cartridge back in the Shell Holder and raise the ram.
9. Snug the Seating Stem Lock Nut into position.

Here is where all the above allows us to convert from OCL to ODL.

10. Lower the Cartridge and unscrew the Seating Die from the Press.
11. Take your 0.001" capable Calipers and measure from the top of the Seating Stem to the very bottom of the Seating Die.

This is the Overall Die Length(ODL) for the Set-Up Bullet and you will want to record this length on the actual Bullet Box.

For an Example, lets say the OCL was 3.280" and when we complete the above process, the ODL is 4.300". We now know we can take any Bullet out of that box and Seat it to just Kiss-the-Lands with the ODL set at 4.300". Or of we want to Seat Bullets 0.025" Off-the-Lands, we simply adjust the Seating Stem to 4.275", screw the Seating Die into the Press and we are ready to begin Seating Bullets.

If the Seating Die Lock Ring moves, then all measurements will be off. So it is important to have the Set Screw SNUG, but not so tight that you round out the Hex.

On Cartridges that I Crimp, I always Crimp into a Cannelure. I leave the Lock Ring Loose on those Dies and perform Bullet Seating and Crimping as two separate steps. Here a Dummy Cartridge can save you a good bit of Set-Up time.

I know that looks like a lot of stuff to do, and I guess it is. The Set-Up Bullet needs to be done each time you open a new box of bullets because of slight variances during manufacture. And occasionally the Manufacturers have to replace the Forming Dies which can change the Ogive shape and position.

It you have a rifle that uses a high Pressure cartridge and you shoot it a good bit, the Throat will recede a bit as you shoot it. So, this also helps keep up with that process

I know I do a lot more steps in my Reloading than most folks, but it is my time to use as I see fit. As usual, use what you want and trash the rest.

Madrid, Using the RCBS Case Micrometer, the lands on my TRG-22 in 308 measured .085 which is longer than most. For comparison's sake here are the measurements using the same tool I've used on several other 308's....

TRG-22 .083
700 ADL .050
Stainless M-70 .090
M-70 Compact .057
Steyr Scout 1 .059
LB404 M-70 .073
Steyr HB Tctl .047
Kimber SA .041
Sako M-75 Hntr .064
700 LTR 1.32
700 VSSF 2.03 !!
Steyr Scout 2 .043
Savage 99F .140


-as you can see I got my money's worth on the 308 Mic .
Hope this helps. My favorite load for my TRG is a 175gr Sierra Matchking and (I think 44.0grs) of N-150 in Lapua Brass with Fed 210 Primers. The 175's seemed to shoot a little better than the 168's in my gun. If you can get them you might try some of the Lapua Scenars also.
Hope this helps!....................DJ

Thanks

At this time I cannot write .

This weekend I will read your well post and I will try to understand them and to use your information.(sorry but my English is not very good)



I believe that it is great!!!!
and I invite you to some beers in Madrid next weekend ¿OK?

Thanks a LOTTTTT