If so, why?

Definitely and for a few reasons.

Firstly is accuracy. Accuracy is not so much determined by how well the ammo is assembled but rather it is determined by having ammo that suits the gun in question.

If you are lucky enough to have a rifle that matches up with some factory ammo, the problem is that it might not match up with the next lot of the same brand of ammo. This can become very important in calibers that have very expensive factory ammo as it is too difficult from a money point of view to stock up on a particular batch ammo. But reloading components don't really cost much more for a 30/378 Wby than they do for a 308. Also, if you have 2 or more rifles, they can share many of the reloading components. Not so with factory ammo.

But even when handloading components change with different lots, you can alter the load accordingly.

Another big plus for reloading is making loads that are quite different in peformance to the standard factory ammo and I am thinking here mainly of reduced loads.

Then there is the fact that handloading becomes a hobby in its own right.

Personally, I never use factory ammo and always just start with new unprimed brass.

Using factory ammo is like going to a restaurant and having a choice of only 3 meals and 2 different wines and you a choice of only two tables at which to sit. Reloading is going to the same restaurant having an infinte choice of meals and wines, a better table to sit at and also paying a smaller price for the meal and wine.

Why people don't reload has remained for me, one of life's ongoing puzzles

Mike

[ 05-26-2002, 08:11: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Let me answer your question by asking you a question...

Is an automobile built to NASCAR specs better than a standard production run automobile? If so, why?

NEBRASKA,
like most other things in life, I think you get out of reloading exactly what you put into it. The spectrum of reloaders is very wide and has a multitude of colors. I'm sure we have all met people who scare us to death. Others teach us a great deal. Today, I think the advantage to good reloads it consistency. The factories make pretty good ammo and it has gotten better in the last ten years or so. The factories cannot give the attention to each step as we can. It is just too cost prohibitive. Some years back, the only way to shoot certain bullets was to reload. This is not as true today as it once was, but is still the case with some bullets. Factories offer very little in the line of reduced loads for special uses. Reloading is the only way to get them. I've found that it seems to take about 25 to 50 fps to expand a case to fit a chamber. That is not the case with neck sized cases. There is one reason that we don't seem to talk about very much around non-reloaders. Including wives. Reloading is a lot of fun. So there will always be reloaders who cause us to get the shakes if they sit next to us at the range. Just as there will always be those who do everything but make their cases from scratch. Bless 'em. For it is people like that, in our sport, who force the factories to make better weapons and ammo. Have a good weekend all.

I load three calibers that aren't available commerically, so my handloads are far superior.

Eddie

Ricciardelli

I think that was a very good question, & a very good reply I personally cant stand the quality if factory ammo , it groups good the one day try the next three in the box ooooh where did my group go. I do agree that you get good factory ammo, but I also think it has alot to do with the pleasure you get from rolling your own . Then also the cost factor , saving on average 40 - 50 % . I think you should decide for yourself Nebraska .

Rudie

Not necessarily. A lot of factory ammo is often of much better quality today than in the not too distant past. In some instances, handloaders have always found it difficult to equal some kinds of factory ammo, in particular match ammo for bullseye pistol competition shooting. What makes handloaded ammo potentially better than the factory product is the ability to "tailor" a load for an idividual gun, and the ability to select specific components which will produce specific performance levels or ballistic results that one cannot obtain any other way. For some cartridges, factory ammo is terribly underpowered, such as the 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, .257 Roberts, etc. In addition, a handloader who is conversant with all the minute details of turning out precision ammunition, and is willing and able to do all the things necessary, can craft a product that no factory can afforn to produce at a cost level most shooters can afford. There are some exceptions to this rule, for example, certain match-grade semi-custom competition ammo that a few manufacturers still produce.

There is some very good factory ammo out there. But saying that I haven't shot factory ammo in anything put my AR's or mini 14's for over 30 some years. I just like to reload try differant things and yes some of my reloads are better then factory and some have turned out worse. I find it bunch more interisting to hunt with my own loads then to buy something off the shelve.

[/QUOTE]Personally, I tend to agree with Pecos45. Most factory ammo today is very good, and if you're willing to experiment a bit, you can usually find a load that will shoot well.[/QUOTE]

Well, if by experimenting.. you are talking 7 $20 boxes of factory ammo later and still none that shoot all that great. You realize that all the factory ammo i have bought over the years is now my fouling shot when i go to the range..

My conclusions on Factory ammo... only Hornady light magnum were worth anything in any of my guns. Now i reload to what i want and do not get the weird results box to box like i did with factory.

Hellrazor, I agree with your statement concerning the cost of experimenting with factory ammo, and, in particular, with the "proprietary" cartridges, many of which cost a small fortune for just one 20-round box!! Another good example of outrageous cost is the .218 Bee!! It doesn't cost any more to reload it than any other small .22 centerfire, but just look what a box of this stuff costs!!

The advantage of reloading to me is that it allows me to shoot more than I would if I were using factory ammo. I get a lot of satifaction sitting at the bench cranking out ammo too. I guess it's a little different for each of us, but one things for sure, the more you reload, the more you shoot. And that's what it's all about right?

Yes, they are most of the time better, nome of my rifles can shoot factory ammo with the same accuracy as my home brewed ones

The biggest advantage is being able to work up the load that is most accurate in a particular rifle.You may get lucky and get a good one with factory loads but on average a skilled handloader will do better.On the other hand someone who merely picks a load or two from a manual without testing several loads will often be no better off than they would be with factory loads.

[ 06-15-2002, 03:31: Message edited by: centerpunch ]

Good point 1894!

How about a percentage? How much more accurate are your handloads compared to factory ammo? 50%? More?

I reload for a 9mmP, .38 Spec, .303Brit and a 6x45 (6mm-223). The handgun reloads are from a cost point of view as I use light loads and cast bullets. Lots of fun - without breaking the bank.

The 2 rifles are another matter. For the 303 I can load ammo that is otherwise not available. The reloads are tailored for my rifle and I get very good accuracy. In my rifle I can better factory accuracy, but it is not to say that that will be true of all rifles.

A case in point is military surplus ammo - now those things were MASS produced. Shooting them over a chrony shows remarkable consistency, even between batches, but the best my rifle can do with them is about 2MOA over 100m. My reloads all give sub-MOA. The other day I met a guy at the shooting range shooting �MOA groups with milsurp ammo. I shot some of his ammo through my rifle and still got 2 MOA. My milsup ammo shot �MOA in his rifle BUT the best my reloads could do in his rifle was 3MOA !

For the 6x45 I have to reload. They have started to make factory ammo for this calibre in this country but only with a 100gr bullet. It is also not readily available. My reloads are VERY accurate in this rifle, but then I have nothing to compare them to.

To me reloading is a great hobby and enables me to obtain ammo for my two rifles that would otherwise not be available in this country. Although the cost of individual reloads might be less than factory ammo, the total package can be more expensive as you have to buy all the equipment and you will propbably shoot a lot more. BUT for standard calibres I doubt if you will be able to improve on practical hunting accuracy and performance.

In South Africa I hunt mostly springbuck in open plains over distances of �200m. A brain shot (although I don't like head shots) gives you a � 2�" target and a heart/lung shot gives you a � 5" target - so you don't needs sub-MOA accuracy. Performace wise dead is dead....

Bench rest shooting and long range varmint sniping is a different matter though......

Johan

centerpunch: Yes, 218 Bee is sold in 50-round boxes. So is .22 Hornet!! So, tell me why a box of 50 .22 Hornet rounds cost $27.00, and a box of 50 .218 Bee rounds costs $46.00?? If you buy the empty unprimed cases separately for both calibers there is much less difference!! ($14.00/100 vs $23.00/100).

I have always been able to match or beat factory ammo in 95% of all my guns. But one. I can't reach the velocity of factory ammo and get reliable cycling out of my Rem. 7400 270. I have tried two different powders 4350 which was too slow and 4064 which seems about right but won't reach the velocity. With that said, it is more accurate.

Before I started doing serious reloading, I split between factory loads and my reloads, work and travel being the reason. A friend gave me a box of factory ammo for a rifle he sold. 300 win mag. I removed the bullet to see what kind of power Winchester used. The second shell wasn't as full as the first, so I pulled the entire box and weighed each charge. The variation was from 70 to 75 grains. That box of factory ammo made a reloader out of me back in the sixties. I do it for precision, not cost. I can produce better quality because every round gets personal attention, where a factory load is an average.

Are handloads better than factory?

Does a tailor made suit fit better than off the rack? sure it does.
The same with handloads. They are tailor made for one specific rifle in mind. Accuracy should definitely be better, bullet and component choices significantly greater.

The only drawback to handloads I can think of is with long term storage. Most reloaders will not go through the trouble of washing (with solvent or otherwise) the inside of their cases which means that each handload is built with contaminants (polishing medium, firing residue, case lube, etc) inside the case with the powder. This may be fine for a year or two, but how many of you have 40 year old reloads laying around? I have a case of 30-06 ammo I've been shooting up with headstamp date of 1944 without a misfire so far (about 700 rounds fired)

Well, Pa. Frank, I shot some ammo last summer that I had loaded while living in Alaska in 1965, and it performed as it had when loaded. (.375 H&H Magnum, 270-grain Nosler Partition bullet).

I decided to get my "accuratereloading" feet wet with this topic. My response would be, "That's a very general question!

Without a definition of "better", it's difficult give a precise answer, and imprecise answers lead to "disagreements". (After all, this is the accurate reloading site.) Wishing to both give a precise answer and NOT be "disagreeable" (you folks may come to laugh at that soon) I give the following reasons why I think reloads are "better".

1) I can't get "factory" loads for my wildcats.

2) "Factory" loads DO NOT use the components I want, particularly bullets: Neither style nor weights.

3) While "factory" loads have come a very long way in the last 38 years (how long I have been reloading) and some are very accurate, I have yet to find a "factory" load that I couldn't "beat" with careful handloads. "Beat" means at least one of the following:
a)improve accuracy
b)improve efficiency
c)improve terminal performance

Factory loads are a true blessing. The quality and consistency can not reasonably be criticized. It's just that I can do better, and with my free labor I can do it cheaper.

If on the other hand, you define "better" as killing animals deader - no, I don't think handloads are "better".

Paul

[ 05-29-2002, 20:03: Message edited by: gitano ]

No, I didn't mean killing animals deader. That might be another post. You did touch on a couple items of interest however; accuracy and reliability.

There's a lot of folks out there that hunt dangerous game and I'd be interested in their preference between factory ammo and reloads when looking at a Cape Buffalo, Lion, Brown Bear, or even an unhappy hog.

Factory ammo are good now,if anyone can beat their accuracy is a "plus" for him.I consider reloading has a "accurate" hobby",if I can beat the factory load,so be it.I will shoot more "accuratly" if I can dig out a "good bullet/velocity combo that the rifle will really like;not the one I think the rifle will like to shoot.In reloading I dont think without trying different weight of bullets ,anyone can really find the best load for is rifle, one must at least trying before quitting. Question of "harmonics",is one cannot get "fine" accuracy" (reload ) , what is wrong getting factory ammo....

While I haven't done much dangerous game hunting, I can definately say that I'd feel more comfortable using my handloads than I would with factory loads. I've never had a misfire out of thousands of rounds of reloaded ammo. I've had about twenty misfires out of factory ammo.

It always puzzles me how shooters can talk about factory ammo being all reliable and wonderful because a big manufacturer makes it then on the other hand loudly complain about the very poor quality control of rifles put out by Winchester, Remington, Ruger etc.

If my life depended on one shot I would take my loads everytime over factory ammo.

I know the powder batch I am using works as do the primers and I can guarantee that the case has powder in it.

Mike

I've never been to Africa (at least not to hunt) but I have shot "a mess" of brown and grizzly bears. If you are gonna make me go with factory ammo, I would. But I would very, very much prefer my own loads. In fact, now as I think about it, I have never shot a bear, of any flavor, with a factory load except in the "line of duty".

BTW, right on Mike375.

Paul

I began reloading in 1985 shortly after acquiring my first centerfire rifle, a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08. At the time, only one factory load was available, which was a 140 grain soft point from Remington. If I wanted to use other bullet weights, I had to roll my own, which I did. Also, after the initial investment, reloading was much more cost effective than using factory ammuniion. Plus, 7mm-08 is still not all that common. And after starting with the 7mm-08, I also roll my own for 22-250, 30-06, 7.62x54R, 9.3x62, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. If I did not reload, then I would not have a 9.3x62, because factory cartridges for that caliber from RWS or Norma are rare and very expensive here in the US. And with the 9.3x62, I have the option of using Speer 270 grain softs (approx. $11 per 50) for practice, and loading the premium Nosler/Barnes/Swift bullets when actually needed. If I could only shoot factory ammunition, I would not shoot nearly as much as I do since I reload...

Are reloads any better?

Depends on the load and care taken to achieve it.

Is it more satisfying scoring 5/5 in the X ring consistently, or taking down your game in hunting, with your own loads rather than factory offerings?

Definitely yes! Much more satisfying...

TXLoader

When I read this thread I started counting the years and my reloading history. I started 30 years ago, and have not shot a factory load at an animal since. I shoot some factory loads to chronograph and compare to reloads for myself and buddies. My son is 32 years old and has never fired a factory load in his life, and has taken lots of game. I have hunted Alaska for everything including the Brown Bear, I killed all the game with my reloads. Why, variety of bullets and loads, accuracy, reliability. I have never had a factory cartridge fail but two buddies have. I shoot a .257 Weatherby and five different bullets, from target Bergers to hunting Nosler Partitions. I shoot a .300 Win mag with everything from 130 gr. on varments to 200 gr. on Bears. I shoot a .358 STA that is a tremendous chambering for Alaska and Africa, a wildcatter with no factory loads. You cannot shoot with the freedom of choice on bullets and loads if you shoot only factory cartridges. I cannot wait for those rainy or snowy nights in the reloading room concocting a new load for that new chambering that screams to be shot. Well I could go on forever, but I hate the long posts, so this is my story and I am sticking to it. Good shooting.

[ 06-03-2002, 17:15: Message edited by: phurley ]

Hello N

Rifles all have their tolerances and peculiarities; one of mine shot 2.5" groups at 100 yards with factory ammunition ( good enough ) and is now down around 0.75" with handloads tailored to its peculiarities ( long throat ). The handloads are not universally better; a friend's rifle has a short throat and the bullets stick in the rifling ( not good ). He pulled an unfired case off a bullet once, the first and only time we used my handloads in his rifle.

Tom

Well

It's the same way with clothes that you buy in a store or the ones you have taylor made. Bad taylor, bad clothes? If you reload with cheap components you end upp with perhaps a non perfect hanloaded round that could be beaten by premium factory loads. I handload all my stuff for hunting. I buy surplus ammo for the happy days with my semi automatic stuff.

/ JOHAN

The best thing about my reloads is precisely that. They are MY reloads, and whenever I happen to take an animal with them it proves to be twice as satisfactory as if I had used some totally impersonal, shiny, in the box, factory stuff.

Factory ammunition has improved a lot in the last few years, and some of it will surely be more accurate than my own loads, but in my case, that is not the point.

If you know what I mean.

Montero