Hi Guys,

I'm about to take delivery of a very nice H&K 630 in .223 Remington. Being a semi-auto I'm unlikely to reload (or even find) the brass and therefore want to spend as little on it as is (reasonably) possible. I have read plenty of warnings about using 5.56 NATO ammunition in rifles chambered for .223, but do the same warnings hold of using 5.56 brass? The rifle shoots 55gr ballistic tips very well, so will want to reload it rather than buy off-the-shelf "premium" ammunition.

The rifle is a very nice unit and I'm fairly risk-averse, hence the question - I know plenty of people who shoot 5.56 in their .223 sporters, but this rifle is worth a bit too much for me to try this....

Cheers,
Bruce

Bruce,

I may not be the most qualified person to answer your question, but I am unaware that there are dimensional differences between .223 Rem and military 5.56 brass. I have shot both in my commercial .223 rifle, and have experienced no untoward effects.

Military brass often has a somewhat lower internal capacity than comparable commercial brass, so if you use mil brass, you have to be cautious using loads developed for commercial brass. But, this goes for various brands of commercial .223 Rem brass as well. In addition, military brass will likely have crimped primer pockets - at least 1-ce fired mil brass will. So you need to remove the crimp with a reaming or swaging tool before you can prime.

If you say you won't be able to find your brass after firing, I guess your use of the word "reload" is somewhat of a misnomer, or what?? Do you intend to buy (new?) brass, load it, and then expect not to be able to find it again?? Is this why you are looking to use (1'ce fired?) mil brass as a cheaper option??

If this is the case, then you will in any event have the option (or requirement, as it may be) of FL sizing your brass. In that case, I would personally worry even less about using mil brass in a commercial chamber, but do be aware of the (often) lower internal capacity of the mil brass and the crimped primer pocket issues.

- mike

P.S. How do you know the rifle shoots 55 grs BTs well, if you have not yet taken possession of the rifle?? Is it a second hand rifle, and you happen to know the previous owner?? If so, what brass did he use??

The first thing you want to do with any new rifle, especially a 223 is to check the twist. With my ULTRA LITE, Ruger said it was a 1 in 10 twist. This test gave me a 1 in 12 twist. The groooup dropped froom 3 1/2 inches to 3/8 inches.

When you say your group size decreased, I take it that by shooting a heavier bullet? Am I correct in saying the less twist the heavier the bullet?
How did you determine the rate of twist?

Everything you ever wanted to know about .223/5.56 Ammo.


Ammo Oracle

About the mid 90s I came by a large quantity of AAF milsurp brass and loaded some with my pet charge of powder under a 55gn pill. It shot exactly the same size group within 1/4 inch of same load in Winchester brass at 100 yards , my next most numerous brass. In fact tests of ten different brands of brass; both milsurp and commercial, give the same results.
Of course, I could get out my big wooden spoon and suggest that being in the southern hemisphere suits the rate and direction of rifling twist but this should be enough to set the cat among the pigeons.

MHO, I think that the original poster was referring to the fact that with the polygonal methodology of the H&K the fired brass is a mess! I agree. I have tried tumbling the brass etc and it always stayed a mess!
Peter.

BruceNZ,
I'm not sure how your rifle will throw brass. Both my AR and my Garand make decent piles on the range, generally most brass in an area a couple feet across. If Peter is right in refering to you talking about the fluted chamber I know guys at my range that reuse it in theres. I'm not sure if they use any thing special to clean it. The link above will answer almost any question you'll have.

quote:

Originally posted by AKJD:
Everything you ever wanted to know about .223/5.56 Ammo.


Ammo Oracle

Wow! That was a pretty thorough webpage!

Pity it did not specify where mere mortals can buy new IMI .223 (or should I say 5.56?) cases??
- mike

quote:

I may not be the most qualified person to answer your question, but I am unaware that there are dimensional differences between .223 Rem and military 5.56 brass. I have shot both in my commercial .223 rifle, and have experienced no untoward effects.

Military brass often has a somewhat lower internal capacity than comparable commercial brass, so if you use mil brass, you have to be cautious using loads developed for commercial brass. But, this goes for various brands of commercial .223 Rem brass as well. In addition, military brass will likely have crimped primer pockets - at least 1-ce fired mil brass will. So you need to remove the crimp with a reaming or swaging tool before you can prime.

If you say you won't be able to find your brass after firing, I guess your use of the word "reload" is somewhat of a misnomer, or what?? Do you intend to buy (new?) brass, load it, and then expect not to be able to find it again?? Is this why you are looking to use (1'ce fired?) mil brass as a cheaper option??

Yes, that's the idea - and crimped primers aren't a huge problem. So perhaps "reload" isn't the right description. The H&K has a reputation for throwing shells a long way, and they end up with dented case mouths and bodies.

quote:

If this is the case, then you will in any event have the option (or requirement, as it may be) of FL sizing your brass. In that case, I would personally worry even less about using mil brass in a commercial chamber, but do be aware of the (often) lower internal capacity of the mil brass and the crimped primer pocket issues.

- mike

[quote]P.S. How do you know the rifle shoots 55 grs BTs well, if you have not yet taken possession of the rifle?? Is it a second hand rifle, and you happen to know the previous owner?? If so, what brass did he use??

Yes, it's a used rifle, and I'm getting load data with it. I'm pretty sure he's been using military "brass".

The implication is that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223, and C.O.L. can be longer. I suspect I'm OK if I use any old 5.56/.223 brass but load to .223 pressures and lengths.

Cheers,
Bruce

Weigh the LC [Lake City] 5.56 brass and then weigh the commercial .223 brass, and you will see that the military brass is not heavier [unlike the .308].

Putting the LC brass through the .223 dies, you will then have .223 brass.

Risk?
What risk?
Lightning could strike you dead. Stay indoors at all times until you are bright enough to calculate risk.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Weigh the LC [Lake City] 5.56 brass and then weigh the commercial .223 brass, and you will see that the military brass is not heavier [unlike the .308].

Has it been established that the 5.56 mil brass Bruce is going to buy in NZ is LC?? Possible, but ...
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:
The implication is that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223, and C.O.L. can be longer. I suspect I'm OK if I use any old 5.56/.223 brass but load to .223 pressures and lengths.

Cheers,
Bruce

Yes, work up a load for the brass at hand. Using the usual caution with respect to max pressures, and you'll be fine with the mil brass.

Good luck with your new toy!
- mike

I have shot both factory and military in an AR-15 with no differance although the military was a bit more accurate until I duplicated the military load using W-748 in the commercial cases. I was shooting mostly 55 grain FMJ. I have a big bunch of once shot military cases if you decide to try to reload some. I had no problems with shooting either.

quote:

I have shot both factory and military in an AR-15 with no differance although the military was a bit more accurate until I duplicated the military load using W-748 in the commercial cases. I was shooting mostly 55 grain FMJ. I have a big bunch of once shot military cases if you decide to try to reload some. I had no problems with shooting either.

Cheers Blob - I think the risk is in using 5.56 NATO in a rifle chambered for .223 rather than the other way around. Thanks for the offer re: cases - I can get IVI (Canadian?) cases here in New Zealand quite cheaply, so will probably go with those.

Thanks,
Bruce

30-06 and .308 GI brass is heavier than commercial. .223 brass is not other than what one contractor, ie Rem, would be heavier than another, ie Win. with regards to their commercial brass.