Does anyone have experiencing swaging jacketed bullets down a large amount, say from .458 to .411 or from .429 to .411? I know very little about swaging, but it is my understanding that it is usually done only a few thousandths at a time. I would assume that this is due to the constraints of the press used to do the swaging. What if you had access to a larger press? Is there any reason why you couldn't go further? I would not be hunting with these bullets, only punching paper or plinking.

Thanks,
Kurt

The most swaging I'd try is .416 down to .411. I know of one fellow who swages 286 gr 9.3mm (0.363") Partitions down to 0.358 cal. I think 0.010" is about the most you want to do in one swaging pass.

Lars G,

Thanks for the reply. Do you know why .010" would be the most for one pass?

Thanks,
Kurt

[This message has been edited by the-moleman (edited 05-23-2002).]

[ 06-15-2002, 03:35: Message edited by: centerpunch ]

centerpunch,

That would make sense. The loose cores would no doubt eliminate any possibility of getting decent accuracy, even for plinking.

What about going small, say .405 then bumping the bullets back up to .411? I would think the springback would then help hold the core in place. Any merit to that idea?

Thanks,
Kurt

I know of people who have tried it but did not get very good results, but have no personal experience

I'm not sure if spring-back is LARGE, but if it is, then you would be shooting a bullet that is larger than groove size and the pressure might go very high.

the_captn

Moleman, I've got some experience at this and can tell you that 5 or 6 thou is about max. The loose core problem has been discussed, but the other is that the bullet comes out of the die looking like a banana, with a pronounced curve.
Depending on the jacket, they will also wrinkle.
WRT swaging a bullet up, it usually won't work because during the manufacturing process, the bullet is swaged up before the point is formed. What you have is a cylinder with an open end and the jacket filled with lead.
You would need some kind of die that would keep the point and allow for a diameter increase. Not impossible, but not the way it's normally done.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

I have looked into swaging .41 handgun bullets up for plinkers in .416's but could not find dies for doing this and gave it up as too much trouble. CH4D does, however, make dies for swaging bullets down in sturdy regular reloading presses. They suggest .004" per die until you get the diameter desired, but you should be able to do .416 to.411 in one die only .001" more than sugested.

Fireplug

captnemo, springback could be accommodated, assuming it was consistent. I would just have to make another die if I was off the first time.

Steve Redgwell, the curving bullet distortion is something that I haven't heard of before, and it would be a big problem. I had intended to make my own dies for bumping up in diameter if needed to counter the loose cores, but I would need a straight bullet to begin with. BTW, I was planning on forming these in a punch press rather than reloading press, so I would have a lot more tonnage to use.

Thanks for sharing your ideas, and keep them coming.

Kurt

Kurt,

I think if I was swaging down I would try bonded core woodleighs as that may prevent the loose core problem.

If you could successfully bump up 41 pistol bullets it would add another dimension to 416 rifles.

Mike

Mike375, I hadn't thought of bonded core bullets. I was really hoping just to make cheap bullets for a .405 W. C.F.

I wouldn't think it would be too hard to bump up .410 bullets to .416. I believe Jack O'Connor once killed a cape buffalo with one of his .416 Rigby's shooting a 300 grain .375 bullet he had resized. If he could do .041 I wouldn't think .005 would be a problem.

Kurt

I could niether find dies for increasing diameter, nor a descrition for doing so. I agree that .005" is a small step up and should be doable, but there must be some less than obvious problem or dies and/or information would be around.

The .41 and .45 handgun bullets would be cheap fun and good training loads in .416 and .458 rifles if a .005/.006" bump could be done for reasonable effort and $$.

Fireplug

make it smaller than you want them bump it back up. That way the core will be tight and the springback will tighten rather than loosen the core. Probably better to just buy some expensive bullets. : )

Fireplug, the way I would bump up a bullet is with a tool having two punches and a die. One punch would hold the bullet by the base, one punch would match the nose profile almost exactly to hold the bullet centered while forming, and the die body for these two to move in would have an internal diameter equal to the desired diameter of the bullet.

I'd run it in a punch press with an air cushion and a long stroke. The nose punch would push down on the bullet which would push the base punch down into the die until it bottomed out, then the bullet would upset and fill the die to the proper diameter.

This probably won't work or else someone would have something like this on the market that would run in a reloading press. Or maybe it just requires a lot of tonnage. I had intended to use a 5-ton hydraulic punch press, but maybe I'll have to go bigger.

Kurt

Kurt,

The method you describe should work quite well. I think the pressure required might be reduced by making the nose punch press a hollow point in the nose; since, the ram pressure would be focused on this smaller area for more psi.

Maybe, the reason this is not done is simply that the amount of tooling needed is greater than the benefit. Swaging up bullets is an interesting idea, but cast bullets in the size needed are probably a far easier and cost effective route to plinking bullets.

Fireplug