My 24" barreled ZG47 30-06 can just about run at 308 velocities.

64gr RL22 gives 2,760fps with 165gr
62gr RL22 gives 2,600fps with 180gr
59gr RL22 gives 2,480fps with 200gr


The throat and COL are VERY long (wear) hence the slightly over book charge weights. It is however accurate.

I'm wondering if RL17 might give a bit more velocity with 165gr and 180gr bullets? Alliant seems to think so but Nosler still reckons RL22 is the velocity king. What's your experience?

You might just fine 308 vel is lower

My Sauer 202 (24" bbl.) sends a 165 SGK, backed by N 160 / 60.5, at a clocked 884 m" / 2900 ft".

quote:

With my 22" barrel Ruger #1 A in 30-06 I am getting 2880 with 64gr. of RL 17 and 165 Nos BT amended to 58gr

I think that's 7gr over Nosler book max for that bullet and powder

Sure you don't mean RL22?

Andre - as it's such a slow barrel I'd like the extra oomph of double base powders.

I would guess that R17 would top your R22 velocities. Whether or not you need to is your question to answer.

Fury01 - thanks.

Rifle is now shortened to 21" so I could do with the powder that gives some extra MV to compensate (if it's accurate)

I'm trying to wean myself off numbers. I'm working up, shooting for accuracy and when I have an accurate load towards the top end of the charge weights I will confirm drop at 300 and call it quits. No chrono.

Done.

I have worked up to 58gr independantly (in 70degrees) which gives me 2,710fps which is perfect.

Also got 2,650 with 180gr accubonds at COL 3.4" in 70 degrees. Possibly a bit tight in the magazine (bear country so reliability critical) so redid at 3.365" COL with 0.5gr less and retested in 60f which gave me 2,550fps Original load was possibly a little hot this gives one hole accuracy so I'm happy.

Now which to choose for stalking moose out to 300m on clearcuts and potential short range encounters hunting with dog............ 165gr partition at 2,700fps or 180gr Accubond at 2,550fps?

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
My 24" barreled ZG47 30-06 can just about run at 308 velocities.

64gr RL22 gives 2,760fps with 165gr
62gr RL22 gives 2,600fps with 180gr
59gr RL22 gives 2,480fps with 200gr

I'm wondering if RL17 might give a bit more velocity with 165gr and 180gr bullets? Alliant seems to think so but Nosler still reckons RL22 is the velocity king. What's your experience?

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
I would guess that R17 would top your R22 velocities. Whether or not you need to is your question to answer.

RL17 will blow RL22 away with medium weight bullets in medium capacity cases.

200gr.308 bullets would probably do better with RL22
The throat and COL are VERY long (wear) hence the slightly over book charge weights. It is however accurate.

I get 2700+ FPS with a 200gr .323 Speer Hotcore in the 8X57 when loaded to '06 pressure.

Nosler claims that IMR 4350 is the velocity king with 200gr Partitions, but I was never able to get over 2600 FPS with IMR 4350 W/O pressure signs. Nosler claimed 2700 FPS.

RL17 will best that by over 100 FPS W/O showing any pressure signs.

Thanks - looks like you're right.

Interested in your 8x57IS load. I have an 8x60S also in a ZG that I use H380 in to get 2,600fps. Probably just ticking along but it's tremendously rare and that load does all I need. I've heard tell N550 is the go to powder for it if you really want to get velocity.

Quickload predictions. 3.34" COAL 24" barrel 58,000 PSI ceiling 105% maximum case capacity. If the OP would give me the COAL & specific bullets he is using, I can do a more accurate predictions.

165gr Nosler BT 100.1% usable case capacity 58.2 gr RL-17 2974 FPS 58,000 PSI

165gr Nosler BT 105% usable case capacity 58.8 Gr RL-22 2708 FPS 44,082 PSI

180gr Nosler BT 98.6% usable case capacity 56.1 gr RL-17 2847 FPS 48,000 PSI

180gr Nosler BT 105% usable case capacity 57.5 Gr RL-22 2648 FPS 46,287 PSI

200gr Nosler AB 97.4% usable case capacity 53.0 gr RL-17 2689 FPS 58,000 PSI

200gr Nosler AB 105% usable case capacity 55.1 Gr RL-22 2549 FPS 48,353 PSI

220gr Nosler Par 93.6% usable case capacity 52.8 gr RL-17 2574 FPS 58,000 PSI

220gr Nosler Par 105% usable case capacity 57.1 Gr RL-22 2558 FPS 55,079 PSI

Since my experience with Quickload predictions for RL-17 shows them to be a bit on the optimistic side, deducting 100 FPS would be a more realistic value.

Still until the bullet weights get to 200gr & above, RL-17 is the clear winner. Once 200gr or heavier bullets are used, the compressed loads of RL-22 will perform the same or better with more than likely lowered SD in Mv & better accuracy. All the while staying well below SAMMI max pressure.

RL-22 works well in 280 Rem W/O approaching max pressure, but Norma MRP & Vv N560 will outperform it.

I find Nosler's data ludicrous in some instances. They show the same loads for BT & Partition bullets when the shape of the Partition bullet leaves significantly more usable case volume at a given COAL allowing more powder to be used W/O increasing pressure.

Their date for the n8X57 Mauser W/IMR 4350 and 200gr Par is also way off. The performance data they post for the 8mm-06 is lower in performance than the 8X57. While there isn't a big difference between the 2, there is some improvement for the 8mm-06 over the 8X57.

That would be great - my QL is on a floppy with no PC to use it. I'd thought I'd stopped this sort of thing but the bug has bitten again

Now a 21" barrel

I'm using 165gr partition at 3.365" and a 180gr accubond at the same COL.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
That would be great - my QL is on a floppy with no PC to use it. I'd thought I'd stopped this sort of thing but the bug has bitten again

Now a 21" barrel

I'm using 165gr partition at 3.365" and a 180gr accubond at the same COL.

My original QL was on floppy.

Contact NECO & they will send you an updated version on CD when you e-mail a picture of your destroyed floppy version. I think there is a small fee, but the new version has a lot more cartridges & an enhanced Quicktarget program.

Nosler 165gr Par, 3.365" COAL 21" barrel RL-17.

98.7% usable case capacity 59.6 gr RL-17 2895 FPS 58,000 PSI


Nosler 180gr AB 3.365" COAL 21" Barrel RL-17

97.1% usable case capacity 53.3gr RL-17 2616 FPS 58,000 PSI


RL-22 would be further handicapped in the short barrel.

Thanks. Looks like I'm conservative on the 165gr and hotter on the 180gr.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Thanks. Looks like I'm conservative on the 165gr and hotter on the 180gr.

Accubonds & Ballistic Tip bullets are longer than an equivalent Partition & will yield higher velocities & pressure when loaded to the same COAL.

This can be offset a little if your magazine is long enough as they will also allow a longer COAL when loaded just off the lands.

Note that my loads for the 180gr BT are only 120 FPS faster than the 200gr Partitions even though they are loaded to a slightly longer COAL. My barrel doesn't like the 180gr BTs as well as 200gr Partitions or Speer Hotcore bullets.

Until RL17 came along the best I could do with a 200 gr Accubond was 2650 fps with RL22, now I can do better



If you use it, work up to it, like I did

Went a little higher, still with no pressure signs, but backed down for accuracy and ease of mind

Ive

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Until RL17 came along the best I could do with a 200 gr Accubond was 2650 fps with RL22, now I can do better



If you use it, work up to it, like I did

Went a little higher, still with no pressure signs, but backed down for accuracy and ease of mind

I've had similar experience W/RL-17 in the 8X57.

I ended up adding a few more grains of powder than predicted to achieve 60K Mv prediction.

No pressure signs.

I also use 49.5gr RL-17 behind a 160gr FTX bullet in my Dad's 30/40 Krag. 2500 FPS in a 22" barrel at an estimated 42K pressure @ that Mv. I may up the charge to 50.5gr to get above 2600 FPS. It should still be well within 47K SAMMI pressure spec for the 1898 Krag.

Accuracy is about as good as I can hold W/iron sights & 64year old eyes.



It should make a dandy, potent woods rifle for Adirondack Whitetails & Black Bears.

Since we're regaling RL17's virtues in other calibers, how about this



I also use it in my 280AI & 6.5 Rem Mag

Turning out to be the best powder on my shelf

But you need to read and trust pressure signs and go your own way, if you're a manual stickler, you won't realize it's full potential

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Since we're regaling RL17's virtues in other calibers, how about this



I also use it in my 280AI & 6.5 Rem Mag

Turning out to be the best powder on my shelf

But you need to read and trust pressure signs and go your own way, if you're a manual stickler, you won't realize it's full potential

It also works exceptionally well in 7mm-08 W/140gr Nosler BTs.

Any better than N550 with 140s which is also very very good

Here are my loads in .30-06 with RL-17:

150 gr Accubond: 58 gr = 3,000 fps 24" bbl
165 gr Accubond: 56.5 gr = 2875 fps 24" bbl

I like RL-17 better than anything else I've tried in the .30-06.

My load in the 06 is
54 GNS R17 200 NP 2710 24 INCH BARREL
56 GNS R17 180 NP 2910 24 INCH


416 RUGER
82 GNS R17 400 GN WOODLEIGH 2400 22 INCH BARREL

havent tried it in my 375 RUGER yet but thats the next project

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

I have a twin brother of this Krag, nearly identical.


Shoots good too, 180 grain Win factory ammo at 100 yards, Lyman peep sight first 3 shots I ever shot from this rifle. Of course I adjusted it up and right and now it shoots 2" groups right on the bull.

QuickLoad doesn't work with RL-17 reliable. I am reloading this powder both in .375 H&H and 8x57JS (8mm Mauser).

For example: 375 H&H Magnum, 300gr Swift A-frame, 3.48" COAL, 25" barrel - QL shows 2725 fps and overpressure, but in real, it is ~2560 FPS and never ever pressure signs. Similar results for 8mm Mauser. In both calibers, I use magnum primers. Consistency and accuracy is best I ever seen.

Jiri