Changes in 30 Years

02 November 2009, 04:24

jimatcat

i started loading shotshells in 1973... a 4 lb keg of herco was cheap... shot was $7 for 25lbs primers were cheap... i picked up any hull i could find... alcan paper, federal plastic, and lusted after winchester AA's... i used remington 1 piece wads, loaded on a texan FW press....it cost maybe $2/box to load.... it was fun.... whats changed????... lots more choices as far as powder, improved bullet performance, better brass... and more $$$ for components....

02 November 2009, 04:38

jeffeosso

fantastic improvment in powders, speeds of powders, and vast improvements in primers!

20 years ago, 8.99 for 1K primers, and 9bucks for powder .. today ..
35 bucks for primers
25 bucks for powder

hundreds of different headstamped brass

custom made brass

bullets within .25% of bullet weights, match bullets that are even closer!

amazing stuff, guys

02 November 2009, 05:05

Ol` Joe

Bullets that our granddads could only dream of. From swagged cup & core to monometal and bonded core bullets.

02 November 2009, 05:58

ramrod340

quote:
20 years ago, 8.99 for 1K primers, and 9bucks for powder .. today ..
35 bucks for primers
25 bucks for powder

Everyone that gets upset about price seems to forget inflation and what we made 20-30 years ago. Run a comparison and the prices are not out of line.

There are 100s more options for brass, bullets, powder, primers and cartridge options.

When I started in early 1970 a 270, 30-06 and 30-30 covered 80-90% of the chamberings.

02 November 2009, 07:07

bartsche

The biggest change is shared information over the internet. If you were reloading 30, 40 or 50 years ago you really didn't have a whole lot of pepple to communicate with. Sporting goods counter people and gun magazine writers seamed to be thought of as experts back than. Their knowledge is about the same today as it was than.

roger

02 November 2009, 09:03

SR4759

Proliferation of powders, boutique bullets and cheap chronographs.

02 November 2009, 10:06

Idaho Sharpshooter

chronos and the Internet. The factories used barrels longer than they offered the public to chronograph loads back then. Home chronographs cured that. The Internet made all of this type of sharing knowledge possible.

Rich

02 November 2009, 20:05

skb2706

Changes....good and bad

The internet where everybody is an expert no matter how little experience they may have.

available information

digital powder scales and dispensers

cheap chronographs

premium bullets (whether we need them or not)

powders (although I seldom use any powder that didn't originate decades ago)

new chamberings that self generated new powders and bullets (again, whether we needed them or not)

obviously pricing .....I have an old Sierra box that shows I paid $5.99/100 .30 cal 180 gr. bullets.

online shopping forces more competitive pricing

02 November 2009, 20:30

buckshot

It has to be the internet. The world is smaller today and more choices are available with the click of a mouse, witness Vihta Vuori powders. Thirty years ago one would have been lucky to find a reliable source for Norma powders.

02 November 2009, 21:02

Wink

For high volume handgun cartridge reloading, progressive presses like the Dillon 650 and Hornady Lock-n-Load have greatly improved speed and reliability.

02 November 2009, 21:05

Wink

I should also add that I really like the Lee Factory Crimp die for many of the calibers I reload. For handgun calibers like the 400 CorBon or the 357 SIG they are perfect. I also use them on almost all my rifle calibers.

02 November 2009, 21:49

hm1996

When I first started reloading rifle & pistol cartridges in 1951,it was on a Herter's Super Model #3 "World's Finest" press. IIRC cost was less than $30 but that was a lot of money to a kid working part time and going to school.

Was fortunate enough to have a gunsmith friend and mentor whose shop I was allowed to use and who kept me out of trouble (no small chore

).
I bought primers by the box for $1 and shot a lot of cast bullets. Bullseye powder was $3.98 a can (still have that can on my shelf, price tag intact). Also used a lot of Hodgdon surplus Ball C powder which was cheaper than most powders at the time.

Today I use Dillon 550's for most rifle/pistol loading but the old Herter's #3 still serves my single stage needs and thanks to Bill Clinton's component scare years ago bought enough primers @ $103/m (before hazmat) and will probably never have to pay $30/m for primers if and when available.

Regards,
hm

02 November 2009, 22:06

Snowwolfe

No longer have to order catalogs and drool. Just a click of the mouse and I can be broke in 10 seconds.

Greatest change? When the goverment ended the law requiring you to have an FFL to order brass and the USPS invention of the Flat Rate boxes.

03 November 2009, 04:43

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by buckshot:
It has to be the internet.

Absotively

03 November 2009, 05:49

stillbeeman

Shared information on the internet and the consistancy and availability of components.

03 November 2009, 20:21

243winxb

"What significant changes have occured during the past 30 years in reloading??" Redding Bushing Dies. Improvements in powders. Better bullet quality.Progressive reloading Presses. CNC machines, less hand fitting of firearms. Only us 65 year olds can answer this one. lol

03 November 2009, 21:01

nordrseta

Affordable chronographs.

Quality of rifles and factory ammunition.

Benchrest technology trickling down to average handloaders.

Prices and lately availability of components.

The internet, and especially the web.

04 November 2009, 04:45

Mark A.

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to share your experience. I appreciate all the comments. Thanks again--Mark Hampton

04 November 2009, 07:27

Stonecreek

quote:
Originally posted by hm1996:
When I first started reloading rifle & pistol cartridges in 1951,it was on a Herter's Super Model #3 "World's Finest" press. IIRC cost was less than $30 but that was a lot of money to a kid working part time and going to school. According to http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi, you paid the equivalent of $246 in today's dollars for that simple press. I'd say such a press is MUCH cheaper today than in 1951!

Was fortunate enough to have a gunsmith friend and mentor whose shop I was allowed to use and who kept me out of trouble (no small chore ).
I bought primers by the box for $1 (equal to $8.20 today)and shot a lot of cast bullets. Bullseye powder was $3.98 (equal to $32.65 today) a can (still have that can on my shelf, price tag intact). Also used a lot of Hodgdon surplus Ball C powder which was cheaper than most powders at the time.

Today I use Dillon 550's for most rifle/pistol loading but the old Herter's #3 still serves my single stage needs and thanks to Bill Clinton's component scare years ago bought enough primers @ $103/m (before hazmat) and will probably never have to pay $30/m for primers if and when available.

Regards,
hm

I'm afraid we don't appreciate just how much more affordable shooting and reloading has become. Sure, I remember the days of $3.00 powder, and have quite a bit of it in the old stash myself, but I also remember the days of $.75/hour wages. Yes, those boxes of $5.95 Speer HotCor bullets seemed economical when I was a college student, but my better-than-average part time job paid $2.25 then. My young daughter with only a high school diploma is making $12.75/hr today, so she could afford to pay $33.75 for the same bullets, yet they would cost her only about $20 or so. Lots of things like housing -- and especially medical care -- cost us a much larger portion of our earnings today than in the past, but shooting and reloading aren't among them.

04 November 2009, 09:38

hm1996

quote:
Stonecreek: I'm afraid we don't appreciate just how much more affordable shooting and reloading has become. Sure, I remember the days of $3.00 powder, and have quite a bit of it in the old stash myself, but I also remember the days of $.75/hour wages.

Funny you should mention the hourly rate of .75/hr. That is exactly what I was earning at my part time job in 1951. Interesting site. I see the .19/gal 1951 gasoline would be $1.49 today. Wish someone would explain that to Exxon/Mobil.

Regards,
hm

05 November 2009, 01:08

Doc224/375

Besides the wide variation of components coupled with internet access of Data , one other thing comes to mind .

The increasingly difficult regulations restrictions and shortages of components ,in large part due to the

current axis of idiots running the country a ground . Government! , Morons in lack of sensible action .

05 November 2009, 01:25

Stonecreek

quote:
Funny you should mention the hourly rate of .75/hr. That is exactly what I was earning at my part time job in 1951. Interesting site. I see the .19/gal 1951 gasoline would be $1.49 today. Wish someone would explain that to Exxon/Mobil.

Well, you can take some solice in the fact that the 1947 Desoto you drove to work took twice as much of the $1.49-equivalent gasoline to get you to your part time job as does the car you drive today, so $3.00 gas is still a bargain compared to $80 for a bottle of the same penicillin you got in 1951 to cure the clap for $2 then

.

BTW: My first job was in 1961 and I only got 50 cents/hr. You're a high roller! But by 1965 I was up to a dollar and was able to cobble together enough money to swap my sporterized .303 SMLE and $119.00 for a $139.00 Sako Finnbear!

05 November 2009, 03:49

ted thorn

Hands down....the internet.

05 November 2009, 04:54

mstarling

Interesting to think about. In the old days surplus powders were REALLY cheap ... I used to get 4831 in coffee cans at $1 a pound.

When I started in the 60s Nosler Partitions were made in screw machines ... and my rifle liked them!

Primers were also cheap ... less than $10 a thousand.

BUT as several pointed out, I didn't make a whole lot either.

I think the 80s were the best time for the price/earnings ratio for me. I bought primers 15k at a time and powder in multiple 8 pound cans. Surplus powders were still available though not as plentiful. I was very gainfully employed and could afford to shoot 50k rnds of pistol ammo a year.

I think that was the better time for me.

05 November 2009, 05:42

rolltop

Many changes and most for the better.

I concurr that information on the internet is a big assist.

Also better powders and much better bullets.

Some new presses are a big help also but such fine presses as the RCBS Rockchucker was on hand 30 years ago.

To the negative side: A few companies have introduced some very frivelous tools and marketed them as "essential" and "improving accuracy" and have led some reloaders away from doing basics well.

These tools include neck turners, primer pocket reamers, concentricity gauges, flash hole deburrers, digital scales, and several other gauges.

While there is potential for positive use of these tools, I read way too often of folks thinking these are the key to accuracy. And, of course, they are merely excuses for not finding real causes. Simply buy small base dies etc. Buying more stuff isn't often the answer!

05 November 2009, 06:32

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by Doc224/375:

The increasingly difficult regulations restrictions and shortages of components ,in large part due to the

current axis of idiots running the country a ground . Government! , Morons in lack of sensible action .:

True, Doc, but that never changes, no matter what self serving party is in charge. Party for the people??? Shine it on . I haven't seen it. If they aren't taking our guns away they're sending our kids out to be killed --- FOR WHAT????

roger

06 November 2009, 04:26

Blacktailer

What's changed in the last 30 years? I'm a lot grumpier. I have hair in places I didn't back then and the hair I had back then has either fallen out or is turning gray. And I can't hear worth beans. Oh, and there is a lot more choices in components (esp. bullets and powders) than there were back then.

06 November 2009, 05:50

Ed Scarboro

These comments really bring back memories. I started reloading in 1970 for a 22-250 and then a 44 Mag. Now, I load for most calibers from 38 Super to 500NE.

06 November 2009, 18:31

DMB

Well, I go back 60 years, and I can't really remember exactly what happened between 30 and 60 years.
But, most all of the components that go into a loaded round have been upgraded; bullets, powder and primers.
As Joe mentioned, bullets of today would have blown the minds of the old timers if they could see what we have available now, that they couldn't even dream of. Back then, it was Remington Corelocks, or Winchester Silver Tips; period, or Sierra or Gardiner cup and core bullets.
Much emphasis has been on accuracy of loads in the last 40 years, with all kinds of measuring devices today that weren't on the scene back then.
It seems to me that RCBS Dies of yesteryear are about the same as today., But, no doubt with CNC machines today, tolerances are held more closely. I don't know how to quantify the improvement is dies however.
I think the variety of Powders available today is vastly superior to what we had when I started anyway. Back then, it was IMR and Hi-Vel. Just look at all of the powders makes today. I get dizzy looking at all of the powders today that will propel bullets as opposed to IMR-4064 60 years ago. I have to grin every time I think about it, but my Step Dad only had two powders in the house, ever, back in the late 1940's and early '50's, actually up till he passed on in 1982. He had IMR-4064 and IMR-4227. He loaded every chambering he had with 4064 (which was many). There was never a consideration on his part that another powder might work better. The 4227 was for his 22 Hornet.
We do have more outstanding brass available to us than even 30 years ago, like Lapua, Norma, RWS, and the special brass Hornady and Nosler sell.
The use of straight line seaters came into their own during the last 30-40 years. Before, everyone used standard seating dies. With the increase in centerfire benchrest shooting, more and more guys started using straight line seaters, like Wilson's, me included.