Yep, sitting in an airport again, bored and restless. Oooh, free internet! I'm in!

So the question is: How do you load em? Why do you reload 'em?

I was thinking about this today and realized that my reloading over the years has changed. I used to be a "maximum" velocity loader. Take any cartridge and try to reline the thing. See what it takes...

And now, thinking about it, I realize that most of my loads are pretty much "middle of the road" type loads. That 250gr. / 2600fps .350 RMag screamer is now 2400 fps and much more manageable. The hot .257 Bob 100 gr. load is a 100fps slower... I was redlining .357 Mags, but why?

And I realized that I don't have any real desire to redline my rounds and I'd rather work towards an application load. IE: develop a load that's "just right" for what I need.

Question:
How hot do you reload, relative to factory loads?

Choices:
REDLINE BABY! I never resize 'cuz the primer pockets too loose after two shots anyway.
A bit on the hot side, but at least my brass lasts 5 reloadings.
I try to mimic factory velocity but with greater accuracy.
Mr. Softball: I load them down to around 90%
My wife's embarassed to shoot my reloads.

 

SAAMI registration for 270win and 6mmRem are 65,000 psi, but get loose primer pockets too fast above 62,000 psi.

Those should be loaded cool.
------------------
The same 1889 7.65x53mm case head with large Boxer primers is registered at 37,000 c.u.p. in 8x57mm.

Those should be loaded hot [62kpsi for those of you in Rio Linda].
---------------------------------
The 303 Brit is registered at 49,000 psi.
The case head is good for 75,000 psi.
The Enfield hollow bolt body compresses so much that the brass stretches at 40,000 psi.

This should be loaded cool.

------------------------------
25acp is registered at 25,000 psi.
My starting load in a work up is a double charge of a book load.

The primer falls our and the blow back fails to extract between 200% and 300% charge.

These should be loaded hot.

---------------

What does it all mean?
If you are starting out, use the load books.
If you know what you are doing, then you already know what you are doing

I own a very, very wide selection of chamberings-- so I load for accuracy. If I'm not happy with the performance I grab a larger hammer! I see no reason to redline my loadings and put more wear on the gun or risk myself.

I have always been a bit on the conservative side with reloads. My goal is to keep pressure levels down to avoid unecessary wear to the firearm and components while identifying the best combination of accuracy and performance for a give task.

I rarely need to load above medium levels.

I use loads that are now towards the top of the suggested loads in the books.
When I started loading back in the 1960's these loads were listed as more moderate than they are now. But I still use them at the same load levels and have never had a problem with them.
Some thing don't change just because of the damn Lawyers...

I like my rifle calibers accurate which I've found most the time is'nt the fastest....But I like hot loads in .45 Colt and ACP..I cast and load 450gr 45/70,chrono 1300...figure an oz of lead hitting at that velocity oughta do it.

I load them hot enough to knock a hole in a paper target.

In almost all of my guns, I get the best accuracy when the velocity is at the upper levels. High velocity/higher pressures will usually force the bullet to expand to the bullet grooves better. Not always but most of the time. I watch for sticky bolts and ejector marks on partial re-sized cases only. Flattened primers mean very little to me most of the time. I've shot factory cartridges that flattend primers as bad or worse than my loads.(Anybody ever shoot Hornady Light Magnums?) Ejector marks on new or full-length resized cases can be had pretty easy if your chamber is on the edge with headspace lengths. If you partial-length resize or neck-size, head space means very little, usually, but not always.
I automatically assumed the question pertained to bolt action or single shot rifles. This was a mistake on my part. In any thing other than bolts/sing. shots I load in the factory/SAAMI spec. area.

Accurate! Velocity is secondary...by a country mile...within reason.

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Accurate! Velocity is secondary...by a country mile...within reason.

+1

The poll answers are to specific. My goal changes with the cartridge and what I expect to accomplish with it.

Handguns are kept at or below book max. There's no ballistic point in pushing handguns hard anyway.

Shotgun stuff is loaded exactly according to book data.

Rifles vary. A lot. Lever guns are at book max, maybe a little less because little is gained in hot rodding a lever cartridge. Bolt deer rifles are loaded at or very near max speeds, as good accuracy allows. Varmint rifles are loaded hot, period. If I can't get excellant accuracy at the speed I want with one bullet/powder combo I keep looking until I do. Any less than top speed is unacceptable in a varminter.

So, where do I fit in the poll?

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
The poll answers are to specific. My goal changes with the cartridge and what I expect to accomplish with it.

Handguns are kept at or below book max. There's no ballistic point in pushing handguns hard anyway.

Shotgun stuff is loaded exactly according to book data.

Rifles vary. A lot. Lever guns are at book max, maybe a little less because little is gained in hot rodding a lever cartridge. Bolt deer rifles are loaded at or very near max speeds, as good accuracy allows. Varmint rifles are loaded hot, period. If I can't get excellant accuracy at the speed I want with one bullet/powder combo I keep looking until I do. Any less than top speed is unacceptable in a varminter.

So, where do I fit in the poll?

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I don't reload for shotguns but what you say in regard to them also makes sense as to not blow holes in the pattern.

Blue Dot!

SR 4759...

But I still know where redline exists for most of my cartridges....just in caae I think I need it...

Most of my loads are for specific uses.

In 243 for example I have three different rifles. Each one is used for specific shooting, as such their loads vary from mondane to just below squeezing the brass into the ejector.

In 30-06 I have two which both use similar loads to the 243's.

My .308 gets both factory similar loads, as well as reduced loads for the grandson, which by the way grandpaw is starting to really like as well.

In 7mm, I use 140gr standard velocity loads in my Rem Mag, and in the STW I push the envelope, as it was purchased expressly for long range shooting, and hunting.

My .270 get a mix of loads depending on where I am hunting. When they were worked up the velocity was matched to scope settings rather than anything else. I know that when I hunt the woods, I set the scope on zero and if hunting the wide open pastures, I set it up 3 clicks and am set up for the drops of the ballistic reticle out to 500yds. This was done purely by accident but it worked out great. The lower velocity loads runs somewhere in the mid 2700 fps range and the other averages just over 3000fps. Both use the same bullet, but at the closer ranges in the woods they are just a bit much on the meat.

My magnum handguns used to be run at top end, blow the leaves off the ground loads, but they have all, for the most part, been reduced to mid to lower end loads. They are all MUCH more pleasent to shoot now as well.

Overall accuracy in all of them is the end goal no matter what the particular velocity range is I am looking to get to. If I am getting shrink groups in development and getting on the upper end, I might sneak it up a tad more to see if they close on up, but it would have to really be worth it for the intended use. More often than not I simply switch powders and start fresh.

The last loads I developed are for a Sako 243 and 100gr bullets. I set out using the new Hodgdon Hybrid 100V and was looking to see what the top end loads would be in this rifle. As I approached the max listed load the groups went from 1" to 3?4" to three shots in the same hole at just below the max listed load with very close to listed velocity. To me this is very acceptable and more testing will resume with it this weekend. After drop testing out to 400 yds I will probably simply dedicate this load for this particular rifle and keep shooting it until I run out of components for it.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Blue Dot!

I got the Blue Dot trick from Seafire here on AR 5 years ago.

I like my 223 Blue Dot loads wimpy, like 35kpsi.

I agree that the poll answers are too specific. At one time I strived for max velocity, now my goal is usually a particular velocity for a specific purpose. I push most bullets out of the -06 at 2750fps- 150s, 165s, 180s - the purpose is generally blacktail and pigs and I don't want too much meat destruction. I duplicate this load with 235gr Barnes with the 375 and push 300gr to 2500+ for DG. Handguns and other rifles, same way, load for a particular velocity for a specific purpose. That being said accuracy trumps velocity every time within reason.

Question is a little to specific.

For my Browning 1885 High Wall in 270win loads are right at the top end. By top end means a pretty warm load on the hottest day. Primer pockets still last 5-8 fireings.

My two 30-06s are loaded pretty much the same as I load my dads Howa 270win, find the top safe velocity, back off a tad and start tuning for accuracy. After all the 06 case can handle anything the 270 can.

My 243win gets book loads, rifle is for my nieces and used for farely short range.

My 222rem is loaded for accuracy, don't even clock those loads.

My 30-30 is loaded to a mid range book load, usually only use the rifle for playing around or shooting varmints.

Now for the pistols. The only one i load hot and I do mean hot, is my Ruger BH in 45LC. Well I say it's loaded hot, but I'm actually following Hodgdon and hornadys load data for it. Factory loading for a 225gr jacketed bullet is about 950fps where as loaded to modern pressure standards in the Blackhawk, I'm running a hair over 1400fps with a 250gr bullet and 1300fps with 300gr bullets. Now that's a 450fps gain with the 250s, that's almost 50%. Lost count on the number of loadings I've run through a case. Haven't lost a case to loose primer yet, and don't expect to.

Now my dads 460S&W 44rem mag 45acp and 357mag are all loaded with book loads to somewhere close to factory loading.

Where the manual says start that is where i start,at 15 years old i bought a 300win mag.If it said magnum that is what i wanted,hot cars,hot women,hotloads,now 40yrs later Iam not as fond of recoil to the wrist or shoulder.

I never even consider Hot, Warm or Soft. Accuracy is the first consideration. Pick the cartridge for the type power and energy required for the game you hunt. Work up the load to control the power and energy of the cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
...I got the Blue Dot trick from Seafire here on AR 5 years ago...

And the seafire dreamed-up loads have already had two folks with Ka-Booms and two with enough experience to notice the Erratic Pressure that they won't ever use them again.

Actually, I know of more who have also seen the Erratic Pressure, but only two have come forward due to the normal verbal abuse laid on them when the potential Ka-Booms are mentioned.

I still hope seafire's ignorance doesn't end up Killing you.
-----

As far as my Loads go, I Benchmark a new rifle and then locate the Safe Max. While working toward the Safe MAX, it becomes apparent which Load provides the best Harmonic Cluster which is closest to the Safe Max. Then I Fine Tune that Load by varying the Seating Depth and I'm ready to Hunt.

I have always loaded for accuracy but with the 7x57 it can safely be loaded up on most of the book loads although performance is the criteria not velocity for its own sake. 303, 404 are loaded to traditional levels. I guess I am a conservative in most things.

Von Gruff.

screw mic'ing the cases... i just mic the ouside of the front reciever ring!!....

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
I load them hot enough to knock a hole in a paper target.

They keep getting tougher!

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Accurate! Velocity is secondary...by a country mile...within reason.

+1

Me 2!
I can't see loading any other way.
As a side point, I have a chronograph, and never use it. Accuracy is the only thing important for me. A chronograph could be useful for trajectory plots. But for me, I don't need one to see how much faster I can make up loads, so the chron sits on the shelf.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
...I got the Blue Dot trick from Seafire here on AR 5 years ago...

And the seafire dreamed-up loads have already had two folks with Ka-Booms and two with enough experience to notice the Erratic Pressure that they won't ever use them again.

Actually, I know of more who have also seen the Erratic Pressure, but only two have come forward due to the normal verbal abuse laid on them when the potential Ka-Booms are mentioned.

I still hope seafire's ignorance doesn't end up Killing you.

Using Blue Dot in a rifle is insanity in action.
And, it has irresponsibility tattooed all over it. It's like fucking around with dynamite.

quote:

The 303 Brit is registered at 49,000 psi.
The case head is good for 75,000 psi.
The Enfield hollow bolt body compresses so much that the brass stretches at 40,000 psi.

This should be loaded cool.

Yup. Gonna agree with that one. But a 'cool' 303 Brit is still no slouch! I'm not sure about stretching brass at 40,000 psi though. I don't load that mild and I don't get case stretch at all. (Or do I? Load that mild, that is!) I'm loading my SMLE based 303-25 to higher than ADI specs without case stretch. It's no 'magnum' though.

quote:

now 40yrs later Iam not as fond of recoil to the wrist or shoulder.

I have never been fond of recoil in a rifle. To me it was a compromise between some percieved need for lots of power or flat trajecetory (nothing wrong with flat trajectory) and recoil. But now we have the supressor-muzzle break! Ahhh...! That takes the last little bit of recoil out of my mild 303 Brit loads!

quote:

I have always been a bit on the conservative side with reloads. My goal is to keep pressure levels down to avoid unecessary wear to the firearm and components while identifying the best combination of accuracy and performance for a give task.

That basically says it for me too! (I just cannot think of how to express stuff like that!)

quote:

And the seafire dreamed-up loads have already had two folks with Ka-Booms and two with enough experience to notice the Erratic Pressure that they won't ever use them again.

Actually, I know of more who have also seen the Erratic Pressure, but only two have come forward due to the normal verbal abuse laid on them when the potential Ka-Booms are mentioned.

I still hope seafire's ignorance doesn't end up Killing you.

Glenn:

I have quit posting any Blue Dot info on the forum here.. people who want to get the data are more than welcome to PM me...

I also specify that they should read your input on the subject also and then make up their own mind..

I can't be more fair than that...

after thousands of rounds with it, I feel that it is more than safe.. and what I recommend as max is usually around the 35,000 to 40,000 PSI ratings per several ballistic software programs, sent to me by other forum members here and there...

When I post the response of Blue Dot, it was more in the vein of humor than anything else...as I gave no specifics...

you and I arguing over this has bored the rest of the forum members to tears...and you aren't going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours...

The only kabooms I have ever had following load manual data was with the time proven load of 25 grains of H 335 in a 223, with a small rifle primer and a 55 grain SP bullet... in fact I have had that handload blow up on me twice! damaging the rifle both times, enough to break the stock in multiple places...

so since you are an expert of pressure etc, why don't you tell me why I'd get a blow up, more than once no less... with that load? seemed it pressure spiked to achieve that level of damage to the rifle stock and action....

and that is supposedly a factory tested load...

Hornady also tells us in their reload manuals that a charge of 43.5 grains of Benchmark with a 95 grain V Max is a good load... however in the 3 different 260s I own, and (each one has been throated out to take magazine length round with the 140 grain Hornady SP and the 160 Grain Hornady RN, seated to the cannelure)... none of those rifles will take that load, without blowing the primer, regarless of brand of primer...

the load is only safe and not blowing primers when I drop the load down to 40 grains of Benchmark...

so once again, this is a factory tested pressure tested load, supposedly.. right out of the manual... but it doesn't work safely in 3 different rifles I have in that caliber.. one a Rem VLS and the other Two are Ruger 77s... all factory stock rigs...

so now that I will not openly post Blue Dot loads unless asked... why don't you apply your wisdom and give us some answers to thoae problems... in supposedly factory safe tested loads??? right out of factory reload manuals!

quote:

Using Blue Dot in a rifle is insanity in action.
And, it has irresponsibility tattooed all over it. It's like fucking around with dynamite.

Thanks for sharing your opinion....

We all can assume that you can make that statement because you have personally tested it and are basing your knowledge on personal experience...

We just hope you are not passing that along, strictly because you heard someone else tell you that, or it just happens to be contrary to your experiences working with other powders...

but wait a minute... how does working with other powders, effect someone's opinion and knowledge of a totally different powder?

as far as "screwing around with dynamite"... are you assuming all the other powders used in reloading have nothing to do with something potentially explosive?

Like playing with hot women, on the long run playing with hot loads really does not make that much sense. I did the former during my partially misspent youth, the latter some years later when starting to hunt and shoot...

It's rather rewarding on the long run to look for these "soft spots", in other words, Mrs. Right and those not so hot but precise and safe loads.

quote:

Accurate! Velocity is secondary...by a country mile...within reason.


Good hunting,

Andy

Man Andy hit it dead on!
Whats velocity with out accuracy and whats accuracy with out velocity? Seems like a conundrum! But my take on it is, as long as you have the right load your ducks will line right up!

quote:

Like playing with hot women, on the long run playing with hot loads really does not make that much sense. I did the former during my partially misspent youth, the latter some years later when starting to hunt and shoot...

It's rather rewarding on the long run to look for these "soft spots", in other words, Mrs. Right and those not so hot but precise and safe loads.

Damn man I totally must agree! But if you cant wake up to her in the morning, time to move on! On the other hand if they are into all the things you are and are your best friend, bingo! Lucky ass'

300 Weatherby, 270 Winchester and 8MM Mauser all book loads.

303 British, 308/7.62 NATO and 300 Savage, mild or under book loads.

45/70. Depends. Mostly mild 405gr loads. Some heavy loads.

.223/5.56MM, 55gr loaded to 5.56MM velocities. 75gr bullets loaded for accuracy.

45ACP. All bunny fart practice loads.

For hunting BIG game I load hot - but even then I insist on at least 5 reloading per case. Using slow-burning powders wisely can produce exceptional performance. I only shoot these hot loads a few times a year. For shooting targets, I load way, way down - all I need is for the bullet to reach the target, because the target is already dead.