Does anyone have a starting load or a recipe using a Hornady 170 gr.Flat point and IMR4350 powder with a WLR primer in a R-P case for a Winchester model 94 .30-30?I bought an 8 lb. jug of 4350 to use in a 22-250 and a .243 and thought I would try it in my .30-30.The only recipe I can find is for a speer bullet.I don't feel comfortable using one manufactures load data on anothers bullets.I understand that a light load of slow burning powder could (will?)cause detonation problems,(which I don't understand detonation and don't want to find out the hard way!!!Sounds like it isn't a good situation.)I would like your recipe if you will, or is this powder too slow for this particular bullet.



thanks,prplbkr

Click Here >>> http://stevespages.com/308_9_170.html

Don't have my manuals close at hand but 4350 is a bit slow for that cartride/bore size.

If you develop your loads properly it won't make any difference who supplied the data. Start in the low to mid-range charges. Work up gradually and then ONLY if you don't encounter pressure signs.

Steves website is where I got the recipe.However,according to his info,he uses only Speer bullets.Would it be prudent to cross reference his data to a Hornady bullet?

quote:

Originally posted by prplbkrr:
However,according to his info,he uses only Speer bullets.Would it be prudent to cross reference his data to a Hornady bullet?

If you are useing Speer bullets with Speer data you should be OK, otherwise it would be prudent to cross referance the load. Speers #13 lists 30.5-34.5gr IMR4350 with their 170 gr FP. Hodgdon dosen`t list a load with IMR4350 (they now own IMR) and likely don`t concider it as a useful powder in this cartridge. I personally tend to feel myself it is too slow for this round, but as data is available you should be safe.

Hmmm...2 posts,1 opinon that this powder is too slow.Good enough for me.I have been using IMR 4064 and wanted to TRY the 4350,but since my knowledge on this matter is extremly limited,I'll stick to loads listed in the manuals. Thank you,gentlemen.Your posts are greatly appreciated.

I have a Hodgdon Manual #26 from 1993 that shows a start load with a 170 grain bullet of 35 grains of IMR4350 for 1860 FPS and 32,100 CUP. Max load is 37 grains for 2001 FPS and 36,800 CUP.

I don't think you can get enough 4350 in a 30-30 case to get in trouble.

Looking further IMR's handbook shows a max load of 36.5 grains for 1935 and 30,200 CUP. No harm in trying. Sometimes the slow powders shoot very accurately.

I actually found IMR 4350 was one of those powders that could tighten up the groups in a 30/30 that usually is very finicky for a decent group...

But it either liked the lower pressure or the lower velocity of the 4350, as the groups tightened down considerably...

the old IMR Brown Handout Pamphlets, would take a cartridge and bullet weight.. and then load it with each powder they carried.. until they came to what they considered max SAAMI pressure specs...

they list the 30/30 with 4350 and even 4831 and 7828.. None are too slow for use.. they are just too slow for max velocity is all..These slow poweders work well in the 30/30 as well as the 223

As soon as I logged off yesterday,headed to the bench and loaded up 40 test rds. w/IMR 4064.I see today the data I am looking for was posted 5 mins. later!Oh well.Now I can load up the 4350 with confidence.Thanks for the data Marc.It really is appreciated!

Hey Marc, The biggest problem I can see with using the IMR-4350 is you will not be getting the best possible performance from the excellent old 30-30. It just means the Trajectory will be a bit more pronounced and you are giving up a bit of yardage.

As long as that is not a concern for you, then the "Published Loads" with IMR-4350 should work just fine.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Well Hot Core, one is not really giving up that much range with the reduced velocity with 4350...

Besides, I have seen waaaaay too many 30/30s perform much better for accuracy at 1800 fps or so.. than at higher speeds....

original 30/30 loads were no where near the velocities of today...
original black powder loads were in the range of 1200 to 1300 fps with a lead 160 grain bullet..( yeah I know it was a smokeless powder cartridge, but black powder loads were available at the time.. and many were reloaded using black powder)

quote:

Originally posted by prplbkrr:
Steves website is where I got the recipe.However,according to his info,he uses only Speer bullets.Would it be prudent to cross reference his data to a Hornady bullet?

I don't believe you could put enough IMR 4350 into a .30/30 case and still seat a 170-grain bullet to the correct depth to function in a Model 94 that would be dangerous. The powder is just too bulky and slow to cause dangerous pressures in any amount that would fit!

quote:

original 30/30 loads were no where near the velocities of today...
original black powder loads were in the range of 1200 to 1300 fps with a lead 160 grain bullet..( yeah I know it was a smokeless powder cartridge, but black powder loads were available at the time.. and many were reloaded using black powder)

I am sure many reloaded the .30/30 with BP but I do not beieve factories ever used BP in commercial .30/30 ammo.

Hot Core,this .30-30 is my "foul weather,its raining,I'm going for a walk/stalk" gun.Ranges I will be shooting are pretty close,say less than 100 yds as I probably couldn't see the horns on a whitetail in the rain at longer distances.If I did see one at over a 100 yds.I would curse my luck and wave hello at it...I'm not trying to get any greater distance out of her,just the best she can at 100 yds.and still put meat on the grill.

Hey prplbkrr, I try to have all my firearms prepared for the rain. If it is just misting a bit or a light rain - without lightning - that it the time I prefer to be stealthing around. Quiet sneaking into the woods/swamps is a serious benefit.

I just looked in the old Hodgden #26 and IMR-4350 is within a few fps of the highest velocity Load for the 170gr Bullets with the IMR Powders. Kind of surprised me, so you really aren't giving up but 50fps at the most.

But there are Hodgdon Powders that will give you more Velocity at about the same Pressures. If your rifle shoots well with the IMR-4350, it will be very adequate for the Deer. If for some reason it just doesn't like the IMR-4350(and I doubt that is the situation) you can always try some of the others and could possibly pick up 200-250fps without a Pressure penalty.
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Concerning the cross referencing, it doesn't hurt a thing to do just that. The more data you have, the better off your decisions can be. However, Hornady makes their 30cal 150gr RN in a 2-diameter design, but I do not remember if the 170gr FN is also a 2-diameter design. If it is, and you go by the Hornady Load Manuals you will be fine.

Normally speaking, if you have one companies Bullet, it is OK to interchange the Data to a different companies Bullet of the same weight. The Pressure difference is "normally" nothing to worry about. But, the 2-diameter Designs allow the Bullets to Center themselves in the Bore better than other bullets, reduce the Pressure and can be loaded to a slightly higher SAFE MAX.

If you have a chance, measure one of the 170gr Bullets just ahead of the Cannelure and see if it measures close to 0.300" and 0.308" behind the Cannelure. I'd be interested in knowing if the 170gr FPs are 2-diameter.

I normally encourage folks to use both CHE & PRE when Developing Loads, because it is the "only" way to ensure the Pressure is within the limits it should actually be. However, the 30-30 Case does not allow easy measurement of CHE, nor would the Pressure be enough to make it useful. But good old PRE will work as it always does.

Best of luck to you.