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Gang, our old buddy Hot Core does get flamed a lot on here.. but it is not like he doesn't deserve it as he dishes it out among the best of them... and granted he does make some audacious claims that many of have a hard time believing... but on the other hand, like each of us...Hot Core shares info he sees from his perspective, just like many of the rest of us do... and whether any of us agree with another forum members perspective, that is not the point.. the point is, that they are entitled to their opinions, and it may be perfectly true for them.. even when not for the rest of us... If all this CHE pressure stuff works for Glenn, then he is no more wrong, than Blue Dot loads working for me... doesn't mean it is for everyone.... we all pick and choose which paths we decide to follow...and are personally responsible for the outcome.. whether good or bad... as an individual... and sure, flaming someone else gets a little old... but we all have the choices to ignore it or take it with so many grains of salt... but for those that post info on the forums here, I think it is important that we do have access and exposure to all different points of view...it makes each of us better individuals... Hot Core does provide a lot of info to the forum...even if I don't have a lot of applicable use for a lot of it.. many other forum members do... Sure there are things he needs to put a leash on, but then a lot of us are guilty of that also at times in varying degrees... and we are fortunate to have a site where moderators are openly tolerant on exchange of ideas and opinions.. even when derogatory and negative... we pick out the good and tolerate or ignore what we don't need... Glen does make a contribution to others at AR here... that is why I consider him a good guy, regardless of our difference... and he flames me, I take it with a grain of salt...how many times can you be told your mother wears combat boots, that you finally just say to heck with it and buy her a pair for her birthday or as a Christmas present... so Kudos to Hot Bore with his contributions to the forum...I call him that with affection nowadays...it is like a nickname among friends... Hot Core doesn't have to like me.. but that doesn't stop me from reading his posts...because I can get some good info from it. or rule it out.. and further solidify my own thoughts.... so there is no real down side... So Glenn, whereever you are... I hope you have a good day and get one of those big 30 point bucks again today....as we know you are going to be using a 22 Hornet on a Model 70 action, with 6.5 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain V Max.. | ||
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The man is surely passionate, I'm glad he wasn't born a muslim, he would have loaded up his undies with Blue Dot and blown up a bus to kingdom come! | |||
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Seafire, one of the first adult statements about HC I have seen in quite a while. Perhaps we should all read your post each day when we sign in. I hope both sides can learn from your post.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Wasbeeman: I guess you have to be "One of the Attacked", to have a problem with HC. If you want to defend him, that is certainly your perogative. Where his elk hunting prowess is concerned,He's BS. He has had it our for me, since way back on one of the elk threads where I answered his questions of qualifications, and then asked that he do the same, no response. Must have really got his goat, for up to that point I had been civil in the discussions with him. I don't feel very kindly to HC, but I am also not going to fall into any of his, or any others inflamed posts or trolls in the future. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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seafire - good post | |||
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Seafire - Your thread here is one which reminds me why I admire you as a man and will miss living close to you. It is a reasoned, adult, view of the world at large and our fellow respondents here in particular. Hotcore and I have had minor disagreements in the past, but we have kept them among ourselves, resolved them, and I have learned from them. We do not flame each other in public. Reminds me of what most mom's used to teach to their children..."Never wash your dirty laundry in public". Passionate opinions are okay, but to convince others of them, cheap shots, vulgarity, obscenities, or malice are seldom useful. Those sorts of things generate similar responses, rather than thoughtful discourse, and bar discovery of useful information. Good post, Seafire, and in my passionate opinion, long overdue from someone here on this board. My very best wishes to you, Sir. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I used to tolerate Hot Core and take his posts with a grain of salt. But there is NO REASON any of us should have to put up with the name-calling, trash-talking, ill-and-evil wishes, outright lies, occasional slander and generally derogatory comments he so often spews. I am not the only one who feels that way, either, and he's been warned on more than one occasion by the site administrator that such behavior is not welcome -- and it takes a LOT to get such a warning here. Granted, Hot Core may have a pearl of wisdom to share, but it's not worth digging through a pile of dung before getting to it. I was raised to treat my fellow man with respect and civility. As I get older and my health continues to go downhill, I find I don't have much patience for those who can't reciprocate. -- Seafire: I applaud your post and your take on the matter. I just can't wholeheartedly agree for the reasons stated above. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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A very quick perusal of some of Hot Core's posts brings to light the quotes below. And they are just the tip of the iceberg. Like I said, I used to tolerate it, but after he actually wished myself and another poster physical harm, I put him on ignore and now simply consider his posts nothing more than a complete waste of time. COMMENTS BY HOT CORE: "Your intelligence seems to go lower with each post you make post that dosen't show how totally brain dead he really is. A Pitiful and Pathetic Liar just like his... it is all the pitiful and pathetic resident Board Lier really knows. .. Pitiful and Pathetic Lot of LOOSERS and FOOLS Yes indeed, a true non-experienced blowhard who must be a direct reflection of his parentage. Can you "spell" Oscar Mayer - pure fool-idiot, skirt-wearing QUEER bologna. Pitiful and Pathetic! ... I do keep forgetting you are so STUPID that you don't even know how to string a Recurve Now we have the person people in this thread "claim" is a Scam Artist show back up. I would have figured the 3 run together. Perhaps triplets. Meant to comment on your flicks before. Pretty pathetic even for an ElCheapo Disposable Camera. Perhaps if you took a few more flicks, or took a Class on photography you could get some that actually look better - Pitiful! Darn shame the Resident Board Lier had to come in and post his normal total lack of sense his lack of mental ability becomes completely clear to most everyone.... But, you might get a few grins from Bubba Bubbetta Sue - The Lead Sled Experts this pitiful lack of knowledge concerning Deer behavior That is where you can find a total fool and his non-calibrated, guessed at dimension, wire wrapped, M43 info got totally destroyed by the good-old never-fail CHE portion of CHE & PRE. The FOOL even pulled his info off the thread because it was so embarrassing about his lack of sense. For example, if a Beginner or someone as STUPID as the skirt-wearing Queer teenScumee, I realized he has neither the formal education nor the hands-on shooting experience to understand his total lack of character and honor Since I do not Lie about anything, I now choose to post about the loonacy of his totally irrational and illogical ramblings. The real question shoud be for all the totally and completely ignorant jerks For those of you too stupid to understand that pathetic whining, Yes indeed, his Ballistically challenged mind shows his (continued lack of) intelligence with each post. But you do get the opportunity to totally lock-up your rifle. Or perhaps you would prefer the total Ka-Boom Blue Dot Loads. Excellent way to create Scrap for the WAR effort….There is simply no way to tell you how " HAPPY " it makes me to see you and bobbiee using Reduced Blue Dot Loads. You are not using enough Salt, Battery Acid, Vinegar and Blue Dot. Grab that 50# sack of Salt you blow-harded about in the other thread, mix it in a small kids swimming pool with the Battery Acid, Vinegar and Blue Dot, then dive in to stir it all up. --- Originally posted by the original resident Board Lier and skirt wearing queer teenScumiee: ... trash talk Originally posted by the greenest rookiee on the Board: A couple of observations. blah, trash talk, blah, trash talk, blah, etc. Originally posted by the second resident Board LIER jerriee: ... trash talk Originally posted by the alleged resident scam artist seafire You are all FOOLS Sounds as stupid as when the doughnut eater used to ask for it in every thread. It is obviuos this the 2nd most stupid set of responses you have made that I've seen. The 1st most stupid response was when you mentioned a guy Killed Red C. with his "guessed-at" grossly stupid Blue Dot Loads, and darn near created an earlier near disaster. 3. And a Doughnut Eating Radar Runner who is way too stupid are waaaaaaaaay too brain-dead STUPID to understand the answer the inconsiderate, ill-mannered, very-stupid, sniveling and whining, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard Originally posted by idaho scumshooter: ...Fluting a barrel does increase flex resistance, it's an engineering thing known as Wheatstone's Bridge. Probably waaaaaaaaay more information than you wanted, but it's the lesson for the day.Yes indeed, he is still as totally Stupid today as he... for firearms from the idaho scunsucker. The same idiot level can be located in all the "fools" in the resident Board Lier - teenScumee - thread. the resident board know-nothing Liar idiot earned him the record for the "World's Most Ignorant Reloading Suggestion they are simply ignorant concerning such subjects You get dumber with each and every post. Your ignorance holds you back severly. Your posts make it ABUNDENTLY clear you are talking w-a-y beyond a first-hand experience level. If you really knew what you were talking about, you would not make such totally ignorant(non-educated for you) posts. I hope you do stay around so all of us that know better can keep the Rookies and Beginners from being "duped" by such total loonacy as you put in print." Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Charming, erudite, experienced, and myOmy; what a way with words... Seafire/B-17, got personal favorites to add to that list of one-liners? Rich DRSS | |||
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To quote a mate from Florida - "SHEEET!" (Can't do the accent, sorry) | |||
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Well, two days worth of that apparently meth and alcohol fueled troll dragster Bushler/Whirlwind had me wishing for HC's occasional diatribe. | |||
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The correct southern pronunciation is "Shee-uht" - two syllables.  | |||
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Kum Ba Yah  ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Jerry Eden, IF you had bothered to read my post, you won't find any defense of HC. Nor did I nor Seafire ask anyone to give a long, verbose reason of why they have kept this sustained attack going. I think everybody has heard it time and again. Seafire just calls for getting past this instead of screwing up as many threads as possible with the cheap shots. And, after a while, they are simply cheap shots. I've crossed swords with HC as have most of the folks on board that have a strong, confident base of experience or knowledge but I can get past that since I have other things to talk about. Things to discuss. If this bullshit is all you can bring to the table, maybe you and HC are more alike than different. Think about that.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
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 Totally Amazed. " Oh My " for sure.I'll find the Black Jack tonight. Amen rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Beeman: As I said,I am done with trolls and flamers. Thanks anyway!! Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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Ted has given my favorite response to this thread!  a little humor can go a long way... | |||
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I stand corrected sir! Upon reflection, my attempt was more "mel brooks mexican bandit" | |||
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My phonetic interpretation is closer to "shee-yit". Some Southerners, particularly females, who are dedicated dipthongers, will use the more extended "shee-yiyat" much in the same fashion that a fundamentalist preacher can turn "god" into three or more syllables. Texans will usually reduce the term to a single syllable, but tend to add "fire" for emphasis, as in "shit-fahr". The polite term derived therefrom being "shoot for", often pronounced "shoot fahr", thus confusing the listener as to whether the speaker wishes for his shot to travel "far" or to have a "fire" shot into, or perhaps simply ending a statement with the dangling preposition "for". Of course if you are a Texan the meaning is clear to you, "shithayad". | |||
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My darling wife actually failed a spelling quiz in grade school (Mississippi Delta), because "ca-an" (can) is, in fact a ONE syllable word, not two, as alleged.... You guys laugh. I had to learn this shee-yit the hard way..... Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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Good post Seafire. FYOI, For all of you foreigners outside of the Republic of Texas's borders, the standard form of measurement here in Texas is a "shitload". When one is asked; "How many illegal aliens did see this morning?". One might reply; "a shitload", meaning 20-30. "Two shitloads" would obviously be double that and so-on. Another example could be "How much is the government going to take from you to pay for Obama Care this coming year? The answer could very well be; "a SHITLOAD!". Depending on one's status in society, this could be anywhere from $15,000 to a cool $1,000,000. Two shitloads would be enough to cause a heart tremors and possibly worse. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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On the other hand that is what the ignore button is for. I used to read some of the posters refered to but soon found that it was a waste of time and energy. My forum visits are more enjoyable again. Von Gruff. | |||
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I got ten dollars that says if that picture is real, one of those two huggers is fixing to have the other one for dinner. Rich DRSS The only way HC is getting off the hook is an apology and amended behavior here... | |||
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Well that one has migrated out of Texas also.... at least to West Virginia.. all my relatives use it just like that.. another one is distance... " where ya goin'??" " Down the road apiece...".... well if Grandpa was back by supper, that meant down the road apiece was local... if he wasn't back for dinner time.. then down the road apiece meant he evidently went further.... but his only answer to 'where ya goin'?" was 'down the road apiece.." southern is a language all its own... | |||
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I always thought the conversation was as follows,? 1 Shit-load was = to .5 tons or 1000 Lbs. Hence a half a shit-load is 500 Lbs. etc.. 1 Shit-passel is = to 12 or 1 dozen. 1 Shit-hopper is = to 4X4X8 or 1 cord. 1 Piss-load is = to 12 Quarts or 3 gallons. 1 Piss length is = to 9 feet or 3 yards. 1- outayonder is = to 900 feet or 300 yards. etc., etc.. ??  | |||
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Bobby My.......... what a listing of Hotsh$t's finest quotes. Seems kind of hard to defend against that small summary of his gems of knowledge but I'm sure some will rise to the occasion. And some people wonder why, after a while, they get tired of crap and turn the hose back on ole Glen????? Sometimes the best thing for a bully is a punch in the face. Not always, but sometimes it resonates in their brain as it resonates in their brain. Many a bully is actually an undiscovered coward. Kind of a harsh method of discipline but if applied sparingly can be effective and can produce a changed attitude!!!!! JMHO | |||
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The confrontation seems to have little effect on the internet, since it's not a REAL comeuppance. What a bully never would do face to face, they will do on the 'net. In this case, I decided to escalate things because it was clear that Hot Core's pattern of "being louder and more persistent than everyone else" has worked for over 10 years, and has run off any number of knowledgeable and less knowledgeable posters. The escalation actually worked (could've just as easily backfired) by bringing it to "the management's" attention. I really enjoy "minimally moderated" forums, but some enforcement of social standards seems to be required to make these things work. JMO, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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I think the perfect example of Intellect, Respect, Knowledge, Integrity, and Communication skills is Bobby Tomek. Maybe Hot Core should spend some time trying to emulate Bobby Tomek's High Class. I sure respect, and admire Bobby Tomek, and read every post he makes here. Don | |||
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HC has torn my a$$ a new one on more than one occasion. No worse than anybody else has here or no worse than I have to anyone else. I'm sure I'll earn more a$$ chewings in the future.  I guess I've learned not to be so sensative about my feelings getting hurt.I have learned to draw the positive out of a lot of things that seem negative. I'll tell you that this forum has been instrumental in my improvement in load development and handloading practices. HC has been a helpful, positive resource. He puts a lot of time into writing informative posts on subjects handloading. Some, I dare say, are worthy of publication. He notices posts by the beginners and sets them on the right track before they go astray, some that could lead to disaster. Examples: HC on Audette's Method of Load Development I use this method almost exclusively nowadays HC on Proper Adjustment of Reloading Dies for Bullet Seating, PFLR, FLR HC on Use of Cleaning Rod to determine Max OAL for any bullet in your rifle Works just as accurately as with the Stoney Point tool. I use this every time I do load developement with a new bullet. HC on CHE and PRE pressure indicators Recommended in all of my loading manuals. etc............... Sure these can be found other places in manuals and websites with searches, but sharing what we've learned is why we hang around here (as well as to laugh and give each other crap).  Now, this "woods" guy is another story!   | |||
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Southern: Jeetchet? Naw, jew? Yawnt to? Ah-ite. Of course, unlike some other areas, we also say things like Please, Thank You, Ma'am and Sir. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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rcamuglia Hot Core is simply getting what he has dished out for many years to many of us. I have no regrets about that what so ever and will not now "honor" him with such. Let's look at your examples. Examples: HC on Audette's Method of Load Development I use this method almost exclusively nowadays Glad you like to use it. Many of us do not. We find Audettes method for finding a load for a specified range to be useful for inprecise powder charges. That is what Audette developed the "Ladder Method" for. HC's method is an abomonation and most of us who have worked with it extensively find we expend more test ammo using it than with tried and true methods, especially when using a chronigraph in conjunction with the load development. We all know what Hot Core's opinion is of chronographs and his continual beratement of those who use them. I've no qualms about you or anyone else using the Ladder method. However for HC to constantly berate those us of who may disagree got out of hand. His methods are not the only way to skin a cat regardless of his own self centered opinion. HC on Proper Adjustment of Reloading Dies for Bullet Seating, PFLR, FLR Quite frankly Hot Core is pretty much on here and I agree with most of his methods. However, there are other methods that work just as well. His arrogance in claiming such methods as "his" (you also apparently think it is "his" method) and in personally attacking anyone who proffers another method is, again, the problem. HC on the Use of a Cleaning Rod to determine Max OAL for any bullet in your rifle Works just as accurately as with the Stoney Point tool. I use this every time I do load developement with a new bullet. Again the problem here is Hot Core claiming they are his methods. Many of us have been using this method for many years before the internet and Hot Core's claim. We learned it from others who reloaded before us. The problem stems from Hot Core's continual beratment of those who do use the Stoney Point or other tools. His attitude that only his method is the right method is the problem. HC on CHE and PRE pressure indicators Recommended in all of my loading manuals. Your reloading manuals are obviously old. At one time CHE was the cat's meow for pressure indication and was thoguht to be very useful to reloaders. I even used it for several years myself before HC posted his method on the internet. HCs method is wrong BTW as only new unfired cases give reliable CHE measurements. Measurements of CHE on the second firings of once fired cases are even less reliable because they compound the affect of the 1st and 2nd firings. HC should have stuck, at least, to the original method. I began to notice some problems with several cartridges. I was way over in powder charge from any manual before I got a CHE measurement. I quit using CHE because it was obvious I was into high pressure from all other indicators. The problem with unreliable pressure indication when using CHE became apparent to a lot of professional ballisticians. CHE was found to be very unreliable and this was proven many times over not only by several of us but by most all the ballistic labs that were using it. This became especially the case when those labs switched from CUP method of pressure measurement to the peizo methods which give a much clearer pressure picture than just the peak pressure of the CUP method. The newer reloading manuals (Speers for example) do not mention using CHE or if they do they caution against it's use. The reason being by the time you have measureable CHE you have exceeded the pressure limits of the case. In many instances where CHE becomes measurable the psi's are already approching proof load pressures. CHE is not reliable as Hot Core claims. This sia a safety issue that can lead a novice reloader into some pretty hazardous territory. Again, if Hot Core would just state his case then all would be fine but he can't seem to do that without making personal attacks anyone and everyone who disagrees with his CHE claims. He also can not refrain from attacks and rediculous insults on other equipment used. Yes Hot Core is knowledgeable about some things, no one argues that. However his attitude and personal attacks on many others have brought the situation to this. His knowledge some things is questionable, especially when confronted with facts. His opinions could be tolerated if civil but his outlandish and undocumented claims, which stand in the face of reason, were just to much to go unchallenged. As is most often the case when asked to document his claims in a decent way Hot Core almost always responds with a personal attack. He could, like the rest of us, give documentation to justify his claims. After all he demands that we do so. So shouldn't he do so also? Most often he doesn't give any documentation and just makes the personal attacks. That is what he has been called out for and there in lies the rub. I disagree with Seafires attempt here to "bury the hatchet" so to speak. Now should Hot Core appologise for past transgressions and will be civil in the future then I may even be the first to dig the hole for the hatchet. Until then he is getting what he has asked for and deservidly so. Larry Gibson | |||
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I've never seen anywhere in any of his posts that he claims to have invented any of the methods he uses and I don't think any of them are "his"; he just says he uses them because they work for him and very thoroughly writes instructions here on how. Like musicians say, "every note has been played by someone, somewhere before. Don't think what you are doing is new and unique". The same goes for what we do here. We gather here to do what the AR stated purpose is:
Let me know when a CUP or PSI measuring tool is available for the average guy. I'd love to have one! PRE and CHE are accessable to him now. | |||
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I'm not standing up for Hot Core but one set of comments by Larry Gibson bothered me just a bit. Why can't Hot Core or anyone else use a "method" lIke the "ladder system" and not be correct in saying, "It's his method."? After all, it's the one he's found useful for his purposes and therefore the one he uses. I use some of the methods used by Ken Waters in determining where my loads stand regarding pressure and because I'm the one using them, they are MY methods. Maybe some people take too much into Hot Core's semantics. Frankly, I don't give a shit as I can read what he says, either agree or disagree and sometime laugh my ass off. I more or less treat what he says as backwards comedy relief and don't get my bowels in too big an uproar. I figure there are a hell of a lot more important thing that should be attended to, like that buffoon in the White House and Pelosi and Reid just to name three. So he says something ridiculous. Whee I see the problem is where others rise to the occasion like a hungry trout after a juicy fly. Paul B. | |||
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So are tea leaves, voo-doo and ritual chanting -- and are about as reliable as brass measurements for determining pressure. Bottom line? If you measure brass to keep yourself safe, you aren't. The best tool to measure pressure, short of a piezo or strain gauge is a chronograph. The correlation between pressure and speed is orders of magnitude larger than between pressure and brass measurements. FWIW, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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I sent Cold Bore, (oh I know RC will make fun of my difficient word prowess) a PM saying, look, we all have opinions, and I don't want to be looked upon as a jerk, so lets get beyond our differences, and add something to Accurate Reloading. I have not had a response! The pressure thing, I'll continue to use the cronograph, signs of pressure on the primer and the primer pocket, "bolt click", or all the signs we reloaderes have been using forever to check our loads. Funny thing, I have never blown up a firearm, or had to take one to a gunsmith to open the bolt, or remove something from the barrel, in all my years of reloading. BTW, I have been reloading since 1968, so I kind of look at some of this stuff with a jaundiced eye. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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Well I guess you guys know that HC and I are buddies. But we agree on very very little! Thingies Audette Remingtons Strain Gauges 270 for Elk CRE & PHE (or whatever it is) Now why is that? I suppose it is because when I first started reloading a few years back he and I would argue good-naturedly and I would not act like I was totally convinced that I was 100% right and if he didn't agree with me then he must be an idiot. The things we argued about back then was a foundation for my understanding about case prep. Now of course I had to learn to use "thingy's" in order to fully understand about why PFLR was the best way to size cases,   but it did turn out that way.There are a lot of my friends who I can not have in the same room at the same time. They can't stand each other but each is a friend of mine. The problem with this forum is that everyone is in the same place at the same time. IMO is would behoove us all to post about things we actually have experience with or at least to voice an opinion once and if the argument continues, get out of it. I don't join in on the "pressure war" threads about strain gauges or CRE & PHE because I don't do either one of them and have no experience. Now I will argue all day long about "thingy's". You won't find me posting with absolute certainty the best caliber for African dangerous game cause I don't have any experience. Plus IMO it would behoove all of us to take things less personally. When HC tells me how worthless "thingy's" are then I tell him how he is an old codger and chairman of the baling wire and duct tape committee. It's not personal, it's just that he's wrong.  I guess I'm just rambling here trying to find a cogent thought (sorta like rc does sometimes), see if you can find some intelligence in there somewhere, if not PMFBI ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Paul B Perhaps I stated that wrong. What I was trying to get across was that Hot Core claims his method (what he uses whether he invented it or not) is the one and only one that works. He constantly berates anyone who may disagree or offer another method, technique or equipment. It is his attitude and constant personal attacks that have led to all this discusion. We might stay focused on that as that is what is pertinant. Whether he gives good advise or bad advise is not really the question. Larry Gibson | |||
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I experimented with che/pre about 20 years ago, and I came to the same conclusion as Jerry. About 10 years ago I decided to try it again. Different cartridge, different brass, different caliper, same result. | |||
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