I finally have had it with Nickel casings. I can not seem to get them to work in any of my rifles. Maybe someone can help me out here. I load the nickel stuff in all my SS guns(.308,270,7mmMag) and I seem to have the same problem with all of them. Am I not doing something that needs to be done with nickel? My loads work just fine with regular brass. It seems like when I seat the bullet it expands the mouth to much and causes the round not chamber into the gun. My questins are...

1) Do I need to run the caseings through the die to resize even if they are brand new?

2) When I get the casings out of the box, they feed perfectly into my guns. When I seat the bullet and then put them in, I can not close the bolt. I take my burring tool and use it on the inside to make the mouth slightly bigger. Seems to work on some but others it doesnt make a differance. What am I doing wrong?

This is my last resort to get suggestions. After this, I'm going back to all brass casings. Please help

Thanx

Ryan

Oh yeah nickel sucks. I just got set up loading 280 Rem in Nickel and the amount of casings that got hosed up, plus I need to fix one set of dies (RCBS) these were a royal PIA. I finally got some good loads but I and they actually got decent groups but I still am not satified. Accuracy is good thats not the problem, the nickel is scrapping the copper off the bullets when I seat the bullets and removing .002-.005 of the base of the bullets and I don't seem to be able to bell the cases enough with either die set to compensate for it. If I decide to screw with this some more I was considering changing out the tapered bell to a 30 cal to see what I can do. I really think what I am going to do is load this brass up with some cheap Hornady bullets and throw them in a ammo can for a rainy day at the range and start over with good brass.

I am less than impressed I never screwed around so much trying to get one box of ammo loaded, it might look nice, but its not worth the effort in my opinion. More than once through the rodeo I considered throwing it all in the scap brass box and starting over.

I wish I could tell why you're not chambering once you seat a bullet. That doesn't make alot of sense unless they are out of spec and need to be resized. (Or possibly the bullet is seated out too far.)
I've gathered alot of tools in my 12 years of reloading that help me deal with nickel brass. I first take virgin brass and run them over a lyman "m" die to get the necks straight. Then I trim to get rid of the "saw" like edges that are standard equipment with nickel brass. (Yes I have to go about .005" under min specs to get the case mouths smooth.). Then I chamfer inside and out and follow up with a low angle deburer. I find a low angle (inside mouth) deburer to be almost a must on the loading bench especially for the nickel brass.
Once I've done this I'm "home free" and have very pretty, very durable, brass. This nickel brass will be as easy to reload from this point on as regular brass.

Nickel cases suck, and in fact have sucked for years. Sure, there will be posters that will come in here and say they have loaded them for eons without a problem, but for every one who has, there will be dozens that have had the same problem. They wear out dies quicker, have more thickness issues than non plated cases, and are just a pain in the ass from the get go. I just finished loading over 3,000 .38 Special's and .357 Magnums. The Nickel cases gave me nothing but trouble. The brass loaded without a problem. If all there were was Nickel cases, I'd take up golf! Bill T.

Do you have a tight-necked chamber? Factory chamber?

Measure your fired case neck and compare it to your loaded nickle round. If the nickle round is smaller in diameter, then the neck is not the problem. It may be OAL.

Last, check the shoulder. If you buckled it during seating (even slightly), the round won't chamber.

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Sure, there will be posters that will come in here and say they have loaded them for eons without a problem

I'm one of them

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1) Do I need to run the caseings through the die to resize even if they are brand new?

Yes...I'd recommend this.
A very good ID-OD chamfering of the case mouth is necessary after resizing the cases as well.

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2) When I get the casings out of the box, they feed perfectly into my guns. When I seat the bullet and then put them in, I can not close the bolt. I take my burring tool and use it on the inside to make the mouth slightly bigger. Seems to work on some but others it doesnt make a differance. What am I doing wrong?

It's certain that this problem is not at all related to the cases being nickel.

Whatever the problem is, you'd have it if the cases wasn't nickel. You're bulging the case in the seating die somewhere.

Ralph, I believe the kneck buckling is the problem, it seems like I'm having a rough time seating the bullet. When I pull the bullets back out it looks as if the part that was seated is shaved. I doubled check my seating depth and everything is ok there. I'm back off the lands .020

If you have a case that is at the limit in regards to neck thickness, (and many are), Nickel plate it and presto, it's over the limit. Then let the problems begin. Bill T.

IMHO--you'd have to have a super tight match grade chamber to have problems with nickel brass.
If you've got a few tools to work it better...then nickel brass is good stuff. If you don't then you probably would be better off staying away from it. I use my lyman "M" dies alot and using them on nickel brass has made it much easier to work with.

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Originally posted by kraky:
If you've got a few tools to work it better...then nickel brass is good stuff. If you don't then you probably would be better off staying away from it.

It isn't worth the hassle to "re tool" for. Bill T.

Lets see....lyman "m" die which I use on all virgin brass....$13.00---lyman low angle deburer..$10..which again I use on all reloading. Not too much tooling at all!!
These are just things that work for me...just cause you couldn't get it to work doesn't mean it should be condemned for others to try. BTW--to make the lyman low angle deburer work reall nice...take it out of the wood handle and chuck it into a drill or into an rcbs trimmate.

Nickel cases work just fine for me. I've used them for .280, 7-08, 30-06 and 7 mag. I WAS having trouble shaving NBT's with any kind of brass. They are iether a little bigger than normal-per-caliber, or they are very soft. I saw somewhere a reference to the Lyman VLD chamfer tool. After getting one, I have no problems with shaving any bullet, whether using nickle or standard brass.

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Originally posted by redneck7mm:
Ralph, I believe the kneck buckling is the problem, it seems like I'm having a rough time seating the bullet. When I pull the bullets back out it looks as if the part that was seated is shaved. I doubled check my seating depth and everything is ok there. I'm back off the lands .020

So you think the copper shavings are accumulating between the bullet shank and the neck wall? This may cause a bulge.

You could get a K&M expand iron. It will expand the neck for minimum tension (about .0005") and will eliminate your problem.

BTW, all nickle cases will shave a little copper.

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BTW, all nickle cases will shave a little copper.

Get this, then get that. Do this, and do that, and if you do, and do it in the correct fashion, then, if your lucky, Nickel cases will work for you the same as Brass would have in the first place. No thanks, I'll stick with what works BRASS! Bill T.

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BTW, all nickle cases will shave a little copper.

maybe...but that hasn't been my experience so far.....I've had brass cases shave some copper too.

I would not allow ANY case to shave copper. I can't remember the last time it's happened since I got a low angle deburrer. If I did have a strange component match up that was doing it I'd use the "m" die with it's "step up" for seating lead bullets to bell the case mouth then close it down with a light crimp. (not really necessary even to close it down). Not trying to be a smart aleck but there I go using that $26 tool inventory again. I enjoy cheap gadgets that make the job ez and the results better.

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quote:
Originally posted by redneck7mm:
Ralph, I believe the kneck buckling is the problem, it seems like I'm having a rough time seating the bullet. When I pull the bullets back out it looks as if the part that was seated is shaved. I doubled check my seating depth and everything is ok there. I'm back off the lands .020

Have you ever pulled a bullet seated in a brass case, then observed the portion that was inside the neck? Well I have, they look "shaved" as well. No more so than one seated in a nickel case after being chamfered with the VLD chamfer tool. Like Kraky said the lyman M die would also work to ease the bullet's passage.

I use nickel mostly in my hunting loads. They resist corrosion so much better. If you think there's problems that you don't want to, or can't correct with nickel cases, then don't use them. You're missing all the benifits though.

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I've had brass cases shave some copper too

I have never had that issue with brass cases. I admit that most of my dies for my rifles are either Redding or Old RCBS. The dies I did the 280 with are New RCBS ( I llke the old better now I have a set that parts aren't interchangable ) and Hornady's. I often buy more than one die set for a caliber I like, as I set up the seating die for one bullet and will by another set to get an additional seating die.

Anyway I didn't mike it but I suspect that the nickel plating keeps the brass from belling properly.

And no I don't plan on buying special tooling for nickel plated brass, I wouldn't even have bought it exept when I was at Black Sheep in a hurry it was the only 280 brass they had in stock at the time. I have since remedyed this with the mail order catalog.

I am in a push to clean out my brass shelves on the bench anyway, I am loading up a lot of my brass and getting it in ammo cans, and the have even gotten to the point that I have individual cans for each caliber finally. It something I have been trying to get around to for years and I am just going to continue. The only reason I never seemed to get ahead of this was I was shooting up the ammo as fast as I was loading it. But I have started to turn that corner. Goal is to get around 2000 rounds or better of loaded ammo stocked up.

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Anyway I didn't mike it but I suspect that the nickel plating keeps the brass from belling properly.

Belling? Rifle brass doesn't get belled. Belling only occurs in straight walled pistol brass and a few rifle cases, when the expander belling taper goes into the case mouth. Do you mean the expander ball? It could be undersize, not expanding enough to allow safe passage of the bullet.

Actually you can bell rifle shells. I hate to sound like a broken record but the "m-die" is designed to do it for seating lead bullets. The "m" die is nothing but a mandrel with a slight "step up" towards the top. If you buy a 30 caliber "m" die it works for pretty much any 30 caliber (except the new wsm and say a 30-378) I guess lyman didn't see those coming. Your brass never touchs the side of the die--only the "m"andrel goes into the case mouth. You can use it just to true it up or you can crank it down and do a slight bell of the case mouth. There is a fellow over at "snypers hyde" that uses this die in a dillon progressive press and feels it's a better system for seating regular bullets--then he closes them down with a lee crimp die in one of his last stages.
I've often wondered if this isn't how the factory makes ammo. If you notice there is never a chamfer inside the case mouth. My conclusion (and it may be wrong) is that they might actually bell the case mouth...seat the bullet...... and then crimp it shut into the cannelure. Somtime I'd like to see how someone that loads lot's of different bullets (like say Federal) actually handles the case mouth prep in mass quantities. I'm convinced this is perhaps THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP in the reloading process.

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Do you mean the expander ball? It could be undersize, not expanding enough to allow safe passage of the bullet.

I though that also on the first set of dies. And yes I meant the expander ball. But two sets of dies by different manufacturers with undersized balls? Nope, I don't buy that for two reasons, first is the different manufacturers and second is I ran an old 30-06 case into the Hornady dies and other than trimming it was fine. What I think is the nickle makes the necks tougher and the bell just doesn't do much and the case doesn't really expand just forces the ball through the neck.

I have ordered some new brass mail order, and I am not at home to work on reloading projects until Xmas. I will check this detail again as I suspected I might need a slightly larger ball.

Kraky I am going to check out your M-dies, you got my interest up. I also might by yet another die set, I like Redding and C&H dies best and I was contemplating yet another die set, but I want to get more hours involved in this before I buy another set.

But the nickel cases are headed for the ammo can, I was thinking of getting some Nosler Ballistic tips in the black version, they shoot great and with the nickel cases they are neat looking ammo.

Funny part is I just did a similar deal with a 270 Win and didn't have near the trouble, the cases were once fired though.

Try seating a bullet with no crimp and see if that'll chamber. If so, then there's your problem. When shoulders start to crush or bulge, the first thing I look for is an over heavy crimp, which grabs the bullet too soon and then pushes the bullet and case neck back into the shoulder. Then, with the swollen shoulder or case neck, it won't chamber. I seat and crimp everything in two separate steps.

I've been in the handloading game intensively for almost forty years, and I have encountered a LOT of "nickel-plated" brass.

I'm also a devoted bullet caster, making about seventy different bullet designs, for both rifle and handguns. This means my brass gets a LOT of workouts, as I fire from 5,000 to 10,000 reloads annually.

I would NEVER, under any circumstances, NEVER even contemplate buying any such plated brass. My personal experience over all those years has proven that the stuff is just a liability. If I find any nice, new once-fired plated brass lying-about on the range, I deep-six it...I won't even take it home if it's FREE.

I recall one box of nickel-cased factory-loaded Norma .357 Magnums, which had over 50% case splits on the FIRST firing! These weren't minor cracks in the mouth area, either...many of them extended over half the length of the case.

My estimate is that brass cases will conservatively last for at least three times the number of loadings obtained with nickel cases of the same caliber (speaking here mostly of handguns, where the casemouths are usually crimped in some manner and degree).

The plating process creates a condition called "hydrogen embrittlement", which alters the chemical make-up of the brass and leads to the failures reported.

Nickel looks pretty in belt loops, and won't tarnish in your carry gun, but I won't have the stuff in my house, or shop, or guns, for any reason, ever.

One last thought and I apologize if someone above covered it. But, every now and then people have their seating die set too low so it's actually causing a crimp just as the bullet is being seated--causes neck and shoulder problems in a hurry. Possibly screw your seating die up a few turns and then adjust your seating stem down to make sure the die isn't in "crimp mode" during bullet seating.

I have had problems with nickel nrass in both 220 and 22-250. Heed the seating die ajustment, no crimp and even with new bras I inside neck ream , after this step loads are good. I learned this the hard way, bought a case of loaded ammo for the 220 when I built it, then I had to figure out how to make the nickel brass work/ Good luck.

well were heading into the winter months and with hunting season soon over in many states soon,we need another good 1200+ hot topic.
I think nickel cases are better then brass!!!Even work better when using SMKs for hunting!! LMAO JUST KIDDING FOLKS!!!Kidding about the brass only,that is

Redneck7mm: I have been reloading for 45 years now - I began loading Rifle cartridges when I was 13 years old (self taught!).
I load for about 60 Rifles of my own and several for friends. I have never and will never load a pistol cartridge. I get all the centerfire pistol ammo I need - gratis.
I have (for 25 years at least) and still do use nickel plated brass and have never encountered problem ONE!
I like it and in fact I have leanings (but never bothered to prove to myself) that nickel plated brass lasts longer than plain brass. It looks better and resizes easier thats for sure!
I have and do reload the following calibers using nickel plated brass and have done so for many years - problem free:
17 Remington
22 Hornet
222 Remington
223 Remington
222 Remington Magnum
22-250 Remington
220 Swift
243 Winchester
30/06
25/06
280 Remington
308 Winchester
and probably several others that I am overlooking!
I simply can not imagine what is the source or cause of the very few reloaders who are having problems with nickel plated brass!
I have NEVER had a nickel plated piece of brass split when resizing that I recall!
I will state this though - and do not take it for bragging - I am a careful and cautious reloader! I lube my cases, both nickel and brass, well and with the best lube avaliable and I keep them clean and trimmed properly!
I have never seen any undue wear on any of my top quality loading dies after using nickel plated brass!
If your brass is shaving bullets then you have a problem in your procedure or your dies! Proper resizing and inside neck chamfering alleviates this problem 99% of the time!
My advice is to use it if you need to dedicate brass to a particular Rifle when one has more than two Rifles of the same caliber. This is the easy quick and problem free way to keep brass safely seperated for each Rifle.
I especially like to buy nickel plated brass for making really sharp looking ammo.
I do not hesitate to recommend using nickel plated brass in Rifles!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:
Sure, there will be posters that will come in here and say they have loaded them for eons without a problem



I'm one of them


And I'm the other one, though, I've only loaded them one time, once in my 06, and 708, twice in my 308, since sold rifle and loads for that rifle.

Yes, the nickle is hard, chamfering takes bit more work, other than, no problems, cept didn't lube a case enough and stuck the case, my bad.

Get great accuracy with both the 06, 308 and 708 with the nickle, but, I wouldn't order any more if i need brass, just thought I'd try it, and it's easy to clean and pretty, too.

Jay