OK...I am new to this and have a few more questions.

1) All of the data I've read in the manuals states that I need to Full Length resize all of my brass...Including virgin....Is this true?

2) Do some reloaders simply fireform their brass and then neck size and reload?

3) Is there a time,cost accuracy advantage to either?

Thanks again,

1. NO Although some prefer to do a FL size to virgin brass you only need to run the expander ball down into the case mouth to square it up...then do an inside chamfer. That's all the farther I take it.

2. Yes...some people prefer neck sizing...but as soon as you feel any hesitation for the bolt to close you should FL size.

3. I feel there is no Time, cost, or accuracy advantage to neck sizing. As a matter of fact neck sizing often results in MORE runnout than a properly set up FL die....with the exeption of a Lee collet die. Others will probably chime in and say they feel I'm wrong. Right now the "rage" in benchresting seem to be to use a FL di that has had the neck honed so that you don't need an expander ball to bring it back to reloading dimensions. BUT they are in fact FL sizing.

Bruz,

The short answer:
1) no
2) no
3) yes, it is a little more timely to neck size due to avoiding as much trimming, less lubing, and time removing lube.

It depends on the rifle. You might as well FL size brass for a factory hunting rifle. If it were a custom target rifle, that's a different story.

You need to FL size all of the brass for your hunting rifles as neck sizing for a hunting rifle is spinning your wheels IMO. You also need to FL size your auto rifles and slide action rifles as well.

The accuracy advantage is debatable between the two.

Neck sized brasss has to be full length sized after a few firings to set the shoulder back enough to chamber.

Partial FL sizing is a good comprimise between the two. Do a search on Partial FL resizing or PFL sizing.

Good Luck

Reloader

Bruz,
You are new at this so keep your processes simple and FLS so you have no chambering problems. My smallest groups are with FLS brass.
Good Luck to You and feel free to ask more. That is what we are here for.

Bruz

Let's see if I can illustrate a typical situation and by understanding what is happening you can make your own decision.

New brass will have a space between the case shoulder and the chamber shoulder of an average of .012" depending upon the brass and your chamber. For example I have a 264 win mag with .0295", a 22-250 with .010", a 280AI with .0170" and a 30-06 with .0115". This gap between the case shoulder and chamber shoulder is called "head space".

So for a theoretical situation, let's pick .012" headspace on new cases. The first firing the gap will close .0090" or approx. 75%, the second firing the gap will close another .0015" to 88%, the 3rd firing the gap will close another .001" to 95% and usually by the 4th firing the gap has closed 100% and the case will be tight in the chamber and have a crush fit. This all depends upon how stiff your load is the particulars of your case and rifle but holds true for all of my rifles.

So for the first 4 firings you could neck size only and the case shoulder would not bind against the chamber shoulder. After that you will need to push the shoulder back. I prefer to set my shoulders back .001" to .0015" for a very slight crush fit. That is what I call Partial Full Length Resizing. If you set the shoulder back far enough so there is no contact between the case shoulder and chamber shoulder that is what I would call Full Length Resizing.

IMO, consistancy is a requisite of accuracy so the above illustrates a case in transition and not 100% conducive to accuracy. However, the tolerances are small enough so that it may not be a major factor. After the 4th firing you will have to set the shoulder back each time to alleviate the crush fit. That is when I set the shoulder to the same place each time and add the last little bit of consistancy.

If you took a once fired case and ran it through a Full Length Die or a Body Die, then the die would resize the case body smaller and in the act of doing so would push the shoulder forward and short circuit the 4-firings-to-crush-fit sequence. However, in most cases it will not push the shoulder far enough forward to allow Partial Full Length Resizing. For instance in our example above, Full Length Resizing would only push the shoulder approx. .010" forward. Now if you had the die set in far enough to contact the shoulder at that point then you could push it back again, but it would not be close to PFLR and a crush fit.

A short answer, IMO, Partial Full Length Resizing yields the most accurate ammo, but you will never get there if you have your die set to Full Length Resize everytime and keep pushing the shoulder back too far.

Whew! Information overload?

Woods....I must load too hot. I do push Saami specs using quickload and past load chrono results. I get within .001-.002" headspace on the first firing. I can usually neck size once and then it's all over. I have to fl size.
And if I choose to FL size after the first firing the fact that I'm working the sides of the case seems to "push up" the tolerances to just like any other load...I actually have to set the shoulder back.
I guess that makes me a reloading "wild man". That's why I don't get to crazy about using neck dies....they won't do me any good after one resize. I detest having any bolt tension when closing the bolt.
Just what works for me. I realize I must be in a bit of a minority when I see guys saying they can neck size 4 or 5 times before a FL size. In my book they've got to be operating a good 10K under max pressure....or they like bolt pressure when chambering.

kraky, you could be loading pretty hot or maybe my results are not what is normal for everyone else. There don't seem to be a lot of us here that follow the shoulder measurements during the life of the case.

Even though I don't really neck size, I still like to use the Lee Collet because I don't have to lube the inside of the neck and it is pretty decent on runout. Then the Redding Body Die does everything that a FL die would do to the case body and shoulder without jerking that expander ball through. Never had much luck with the Redding Type S Bushing Dies. Still thinking about the Forster modification to size to correct outside neck diameter without expander or mandrel.

Did you ever try to leave part of the neck fire-formed size by putting a washer on top of the shell holder? Then I think you could FL size and the fire formed neck would center the bullet.

How many firing do you get out of a case before the primer pockets get loose?

I'm finding out one thing, it sure helps to have a custom barrel with a well cut chamber when it comes to concentric brass and low runout. Factory chambers, even on a high end gun like the Steyrs or Matos (Lothar Walther barrels) are not as good as my Hart barrel when it comes to concentricity.

ACTUALLY I do have some 300 wby sitting here with my favorite load set up the way you recomended a while back and are recomending now. (done with partial neck size leaving the bottom about .005" thicker because of not being worked) and body died. I'm going to compare the load with some FL low runnout and FL medium runnout stuff at 300 yds. Will report results soon. The washer on top of the shellholder with the collet die is a neat trick.
I know that I load warm....but not past book loads. (And not past book velocity). With belted mags the pockets usually last 5-6 loadings which is where I toss them for fear of separation above the belt.
It would sure be fun if I could lee collet die and shoot over and over again without bolt tension on closure but it never works that way for me in any of my guns.
OH well....will check out testing loads soon.