Hi all,

One of my favourite rifles was accidentally (it's a really long story) checked for headspace last week and failed.

It swallows the no-go gauge and a 4 thou shim.

This rifle has great sentimental value to me - don't read the rest if you don't like soppy stories, since it was my Dad's, then he was going to give it to my brother who got killed, and my Dad gave it to me, because it reminded him of my brother. I use it a lot and every time I use it, I feel closer to my family.

Back to the original line.

I have never noticed any evidence of headspace problems before, and have shot it a lot.

Do I have to get this fixed, or can I just get past it by necksizing only?

I don't want to get it fixed, because, frankly I don't know any really good smiths here, and the barrel has open sights mounted on it, so I'm scared the sights won't be where they should be (directly on top).

It's a BRNO ZKK600 .30-06.

Any advice?

What excess headspace will do:

1. Possibly decrease accuracy.

2. Decrease cartridge case life.

3. Cause cartridge case head separations.

If you've experienced none of the above, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, neck sizing only would be fine as on the first firing, the case will expand to fit the chamber as it's supposed to.

Headspace, as such, need not be an issue for a competent hadloader with an otherwise good action. Neck size or FL size so the ammo actually fits the chamber properly and all will be well. But FL size like a mind-numbed zombie by pushing each case as far into the die as it can go and you'll soon have an unpleasant head seperation pretty quickly.

The 3rd gauge used for measuring headspace is the Field gauge which is normaly the no-go + .003-.004- about where your rifle measures. Industry standards are as long as the bolt doesn't close completely on the field gauge the rifle is within specs and safe.
This is checking the headspace with the firing pin removed from the bolt. Checking headspace with the pressure of the main spring causes erroneous readings.
The disadvantage of the amount of headspace measured is mostly in reloading the fired brass and those were covered by other posts.

How was it shooting before you found out it had "excessive" headspace? I suspect you did not notice anything amiss. Just shoot it and forget about it. If you start to have brass separation, you will have to keep the brass long just for that rifle, like Jim C said to do. His analysis is well said about hand loaders who do not understand how rifles work.

What is the actual dimension of the gage that it took?

Verify that the gage is correct by measuring the gauge with an alternate method such as a bushing and a caliper.
Are you sure you do not have the go and no go crossed up?

Without a competent smith to work on it I would expand case necks to create a false shoulder and then resize and fireform. Keep those cases separated from any other 30-06 that you have.

If you are using a SAMI head space gauge in a BRNO rifle ,you will get an improper reading.

i'd just work with what you have.
once you have your brass fire formed set your dies up as needed.

Thank you all.

Some of you asked some questions I can't answer - I wasn't present when the headspace was checked (it's a loooong story) so I can't say whether the guy used the correct gauge.

Duane thanks for your info on Field gauges, I was totally ignorant of them.

Up to now, I have noticed nothing wrong with this raifle and the way it hndled cases, except when my Dad gave it to me.

He got it in RSA in the days of sanctions and before the local manufacturing got revved up there and scrounged cases wherever he could find them, so his initial 50 cases were all sorts and in all sorts of condition.

After he gave them to me, I fired them all, but then noticed that I was getting longitudinal splits in the body (not the neck) as well as head separation.

I replaced them with PMP - a friend gave me 2,000 once fired, resized, deprimed, trimmed 30-06 cases, and when I got to Oz, I got Remington ammo and reloaded that.

I always necksized only and hadn't had any problems. Rifle would shoot 1.5" groups on a bad day and just under 1" on a good day. Remarkably consistent - no problems with cases.

So, thanks for the advice, I'll carry on the way I was, except I now have Nosler cases, since I moved coasts.

BTW - keeping the loaded rounds for just this rifle is easy in Australia, due to the licencing and so on here, it's not easy to gather 5 or 6 of each calibre - 1 of each is tough enough.

Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bren7X64:
I always necksized only and hadn't had any problems.

If you neck-size only then you have perfect headspace, regardless of how your chamber may be sized relative to some arbitrary standard. "Headspace" is the relationship of the case to the chamber. Regardless of whether some amount of headspace existed on the first firing of a given case, none (or minimal) headspace exists if the case is subsequently only neck sized or "partially full length resized" so long as the shoulder is not set back.

Enjoy your rifle for many years to come and don't concern yourself with "headspace". Just don't make a habit of full length resizing of your fired cases -- it's unnecessary and will result in case failure sooner or later.

quote:

BRNO ZKK600 .30-06.

My reloading is a complete package. All of my presses have threads, all of my dies have threads, threads allow me to adjust the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case. I have 27 options when sizing and or forming cases, some for short chambers, others are for long chambers.

Again, I have an Eddystone M1917 with a field reject length chamber +.002”, I use 280 Remington cases when forming 30/06 cases for that chamber, again, I can not miss, the shoulder on the 280 Remington is forward of the 30/06 shoulder .051”. If there is such a thing as ‘BUMP’ moving the shoulder back .037” can only described as ‘wreck’.

F. Guffey

Most of my dies are stamped F.L. sizer for full length sizing. I am not obligated to full length size because the die is identified as a full length sizer, I determine the length of the chamber first then adjust the die to, below or off the shell holder.

I use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage.

If the bolt closes on the head space gage with an additional .004” shim added the length of the chamber could be no go-gage length, or it could be beyond no go-gage length but less than field reject length, or it could be beyond field reject gage length, and that is the reason I do not use head space gages, I want to know the length of the chamber from the shoulder back to the bolt face in thousandths, I make gage for that purpose, I can measure the length of the chamber in thousandths 3 different ways with out a head space gage called go, no or beyond.

If I had a head space gage I would not covet it, I would use it, I would us it as a standard, as a transfer and? a verifying tool.

F. Guffey

Bren, as indicated and you have noticed you are okay to shoot factory ammo and reload. You are doing the same thing as shooting .30-06 rounds in a .30-06 Ackley Improved chamber to fire form a new shoulder. As long as you don't full length size them every time you fire them they should last as long as any other brass. You can also set your sizing die a couple thousandths long to match the chamber.