I'm loading for another friend again and he is convinced that you can have problems if you take the brass fired from one rifle, full length resize it and fire it in another rifle of the same calibre. He says that it fire forms to the original rifle. I say that may be the problem if you only size the neck but full lenght should take it completely back to original size.

Am I wrong in any part? I have been doing this with other rifles and have not had any problems.

Thanks in advance.

It is true that chambers may vary slightly from rifle to rifle. However, full-length resizing returns the brass to "official" specs, so it should fit in any rifle of that caliber.

My Redding dies' instructions describe a somewhat complicated process for sizing the brass to a particular rifle's chamber. They then say that using the die in a normal way returns brass to factory specs which should be "lowest common denominator" for any rifle of that caliber.

Fire forms to the original chamber? You gotta be kidding me. With pressures in excess 50,000 CUP, there is no way a case is going to only form to what it was originally formed to. It's going to expand to whatever space is available in the chamber.

I would continue what you are doing. I don't see any problem with it.

I'm with your buddy, kinda, sorta.

You can resize milsurp brass that has been fired in oversized chambers all you want and you are still gonna run into cases sticking with lighter loads than you would with cases that had only been fired in your rifle.

That's a fact. And when I have a fact, I don't worry a whole lot about what theory says.

I have one rifle with a "minimum" chamber, and if I F/L size brass from a factory chamber, it still won't be small enough. It won't chamber. I have to shim the case with a strip of aluminum can to turn the die into a "small base" die, and then things are fine from there.

That's the only time I've ever run into that. FWIW, Dutch.

[ 08-12-2003, 17:23: Message edited by: Dutch ]

Dutch is right! if you have a small chamber, regular dies might not size small enough. then you might have to use a small base die, or use only brass from that rifle.

Are you guys saying that, if your rifle has a larger chamber, you should NOT full-length resize?

I can see some sense to that--the case has already been sixed to that chamber.

So would you neck-size only?

Ok, I can agree with the statement about the small chamber. However, that issue is caused by the resizing die being the incorrect size, not because the brass can't be resized to be used in other rifles. If you had the correct die (meaning the right size for your specific chamber), there is no reason you shouldn't be able to resize someone else's brass for your rifle.
Now I have no experience or knowledge of military surplus, so I can't comment there.

Arty

Would a manufacturer deliberately make a chamber smaller than specs or is that a flaw that happens? Sounds like a rare occurance.

Boiler - As a chamber reamer is used, it's going to wear and get smaller and smaller until ultimately it's TOO small. See where I'm going with this?

Anyway, it's not a dumb question. NORMALLY, full length sizing allows cases fired in one rifle to be fired in other rifles. But there are factors which can ruin this happy communion, which the others above have outlined.

[ 08-13-2003, 08:17: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Here's a real cheap trick for allowing your normal die become a "small-base sizing die" without the expense.
Take the correct size shellholder, measure the thickness with calipers or micrometer. Using a belt sander with a good, flat, backing, remove a little of the metal on top of the shellholder. Try the shellholder in your press with a problem case and see if, when resized, the case fits. Usually it won't take much.
You'll probably want to buy a new regular shellholder, just to have it.

Pecos

Now I see.

Well it's safe to tell my friend that this can happen, but not likely. Like I said, I have not run into this problem yet.

Thxs all.

What you are describing I have run across with the 270 more than any other round. I have heard that 06 can do that also, as can any number of other rounds, but I have only found it with 270 ammo and rifles. Small base dies. Works the brass pretty hard, I'd rather neck size only if possible. It can be a real issue if a group hunts together, using the same cartridge. When they try to share, well, Murphy pops his head up and screws up your day. BTDT

BTW, not a dumb question at all. My Uncle missed at getting his deer one year, because his rifle (M70) was the small base variety, and my Dad's Rem pump would shoot anything. They swapped some ammo and my reloads, which functioned fine in Dad's rifle would not allow my Uncle to close the bolt, and once started, took some work to get them out. Makes a pretty convincing case for trial of ammo to ensure functionality prior to hunt. This was a pattern that seemed to follow the 270's I have loaded for thru the years, not just two guns.

[ 08-13-2003, 11:57: Message edited by: 8MM OR MORE ]

Going back to the post describing how to make a die a "small base" die, I am not fond of messing with shell holders. You never know who is going to end up with it, and what they are going to use it for.

Asides, there is an easier solution. Cut a strip out of a soda can. This is usually about .006 thick. Cut it to the size of the case head, and slip it under the case in the shell holder. Now the case is .006 higher. On almost all shell holders there is enough room to double the shim for .012 extra thickness. Remove, and you have your original shell holder back. .012 was plenty to ensure easy chambering in my rifle. FWIW, Dutch.

These "on the cheap" small base die fixes all put the case farther into the sixer die which sets the shoulder back, this increases headspace unless it's a rimmed shell. They sell small base die sets that are specially made and don't set the sholders back. I know we all don't want to injure someone or ourselves with reloads. Shellholders are made to specs that shouldn't be changed, so they will work with all dies. when you start grinding on them you are making a time bomb that your wife is going to sell to an unsuspecting person after your divorce. (and probably cheap too!!)

Ed, have you ever measured the headspace on a SB die?

I have. On my RCBS, it's shorter than the regular die. By about .01". FWIW, Dutch.

As far as the manufacturer making a rifle with a small chamber, I think some of the benchrest makers do make them on the small side. a better centered cartridge is usually a more accurate one.
I have come across a couple of rifles that do have a small chamber, but I think most keep them on the large side. probably to make the reamer last longer. Like Pecos said.

Dutch, I bought a 30-06 small base die RCBS that I use for 308, 243, and 8mm-08 I don't use it for 30-06 since my 30-06 guns don't expand cases. But I went and full length resized 2 fired 30-06 cases one in the small base and one in a regular FL die and put the mike on them and the shoulder was in the same place on both. I will check in a Wilson headspace rig at a friends Friday and let you know if that shows any difference.

Western, no, I didn't make that entirely clear. The rifle is headspaced off a factory round, actually.

But, if you take that factory round and fire it in a factory chamber (sloppy), it will expand, a good bit.

A standard sizing die will bring a case fired in MY rifle back to where it needs to be to chamber in MY rifle, but brass fired in a sloppy chamber expands too much. The spring-back in the brass requires it to be sized smaller-than minimum to end up at minimum size. Did that make better sense? FWIW, Dutch.