I hope someone can help me here. I have been reloading for over 30 years and never had these problesm until I started to reload 223. I have a Ruger Stainless mini 14. I first used Lee dies and almost every time would crush the shoulder of the case mouth. I returned them and got my good faithfull RCBS dies and a factory collet crimp die. Shabang no more crushed cases and reloads fantastic. I have reloaded 55 gr FMJ with std primer and 25.5 grs of Varget. I also tried 55gr FMJ std primer and 25.5 of H335. When shooting either of these cases would either eject and not load the next round or eject halfway and jam. Same day loaded 40 rnds of factory remingtons and just blasted them all as fast as finger would move. No jam thru both clips and bot was barrell cooking then. What is the secret to reloading these? Am I using wrong powder, primer what? I do full length size the cases. Please someone give me a hint or answer. Thank you all in advance.
NRA Life Member
Posts: 69 | Location: caseyville, IL | Registered: 11 January 2012
Just sounds like you are not FL resizing your case well enough.
When I staarted to reload for my AR, I had to turn the die down another 1/2 turn into the shell holder. This fixed my issue in my AR's which sounds real simialr to what you have going on with the mini 14.
I use 26.5 gr H335 with 50gr Nosler BT.
Posts: 270 | Location: Cedar Rapids IA | Registered: 02 November 2006
First of all, I don't own nor shoot a .223 anything but maybe my experience can help. I'd agree that it sounds as if your dies aren't properly adjusted yet you say that factory ammo functions flawlessly. When I begin reloading for a new, to me cartridge, I oftentimes measure the shoulder length of a factory round. Hornady (usta be Stoney Point) makes 'em. If it were me, I get the Hornady shoulder length gauge and set my sizing die to push the shouler to that dimension. As to a proper powder, ya got me there since as I mentioned above, I don't load for it. Good luck. Bear in Fairbanks
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Posts: 1544 | Location: Fairbanks, Ak., USA | Registered: 16 March 2002
If the rifle is feeding the ammo and going into battery, then it isn't a sizing problem. The timing on automatics can be pretty critical. Too little powder and the action doesn't function; too much and it starts banging the action around, ripping off case heads and such. I'd add a bit of powder --a pinch at a time-- and see if that doesn't make your problem go away. I agree that Varget isn't the best powder for a .223. I think the Lee die just wasn't adjusted correctly.
Sorry it is a mini 14. IF it is new the spring could be tight causing the same problem. It might need to be run some to break in. Just another thought.
1 shot 1 thrill
Posts: 340 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 14 December 2010
If it works great with store bought ammo and screws up with reloads, the problem is with the ammo. No amount of shooting is gonna change that. This is where a chrony might help you out. Find the velocity of the factory stuff and try to match it with your reloads.
If it works great with store bought ammo and screws up with reloads, the problem is with the ammo. No amount of shooting is gonna change that.
I agree. This sounds like you don't have enough ooomph to work the action. Are your reloads max or near max? I don't have enough experience with .223 and smaller bullets to know without looking it up. If you can load hotter safely, try that.
LWD
Posts: 2104 | Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: 16 April 2006
I some what agree with you hasbeen. However some factory loads exceed what the reloading manuals call for ie. remington's loads for the 7mm rum 140 gr 3425. I having found any load data to match that. If he tried diffrent factory loads and they all worked then you would be right. Magnum you could mic your reloaded brass fired and unfired compared to the remington fired brass. The brass could be causing the problem. Please let us know what you find out.
1 shot 1 thrill
Posts: 340 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 14 December 2010
Originally posted by mdvjrp93: I some what agree with you hasbeen. However some factory loads exceed what the reloading manuals call for ie. remington's loads for the 7mm rum 140 gr 3425. I having found any load data to match that. If he tried diffrent factory loads and they all worked then you would be right. Magnum you could mic your reloaded brass fired and unfired compared to the remington fired brass. The brass could be causing the problem. Please let us know what you find out.
You're a snotty little prick, aren't you. Maybe your mommy should lock you back in the basement and not let you use her 'puter 'til you grow up.
What wrong Hasbeen you can dish it out but you can't take it. You started this pissing contest. My mother is dead and we don't have a basement and I still don't wear hats.
1 shot 1 thrill
Posts: 340 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 14 December 2010
I’ve used H335 in two different Ruger Mini-14’s and five different AR15’s. Your problem is not the powder. 25.5grs of H335 for a 55gr bullet is a stiff load. It will easily cycle the action. I use 24grs of H335 for a 62gr bullet and 23grs for a 68gr bullet. No problems with functioning, but accuracy decreases in the Mini-14 if I increase the powder charge beyond that amount.
I would carefully check to make sure I had the sizing die adjusted correctly. Second, I would check to make sure the seating die isn’t doing something to the case, especially if you are crimping the bullet. If neither of those are the problem, then I’d buy a SMALL BASE FL sizing die and try that. I’ve been using SB dies for most semi auto reloads, although I’m not sure it matters a whole lot.
Posts: 106 | Location: Florida | Registered: 02 February 2005
When I used to own a mini 14 .223 my best load was 24.5 gr of Win 748, win primers and 55gr win bullets. I used to FLS the brass each reloading. I did not have any problems with cycling. It was around MOA, sometimes less sometimes more. BTW I used assorted brass. Hope this helps
Regards, Bob.
Posts: 480 | Location: Australia | Registered: 15 August 2007
I also tried 55gr FMJ std primer and 25.5 of H335.
Reduce this load to 24.5gr & test. If pressure is to high, extraction/ejection can be delayed as the brass clings/sticks to the chamber walls. No crimp is needed.
Posts: 1295 | Location: USA | Registered: 21 May 2001
Thank you all for the advice. I am taking alot of it in stride and will experiment with the various helpful hints. Sorry to cause a pissing contest between a couple members though.
NRA Life Member
Posts: 69 | Location: caseyville, IL | Registered: 11 January 2012
I had this same/similar problem just a couple of months ago when I started loaded .223 for my AR for the first time. It definitely had to do with the sizing for me. I was using a regular Hornady die so it was suggested to try the RCBS small base sizing die. I had to screw the sizing die all the way in till it was more than touching the shellplate on the upstroke. This did make it better, but not perfect. Some cases were still sticking. What finally completely remedied my problem was switching my case lube. I was using the Hornady case lube spray, but switched to their Unique paste and I have not had a stuck case since then.
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Posts: 100 | Location: Tampa | Registered: 05 February 2005
I'm going to agree and reiterate a couple of the things that have been said already.
-H335 is a great powder for 223, albeit DIRTY in a semi-automatic. Otherwise a good burn rate for your 55gr bullet.
-AFTER you have made absolutely sure you are following the instructions and adjusting your full-length die correctly, you could then try a set of the small base dies. I have used these in tight chambered semi-autos before and they work. I had less bent case rims from hard extractions.
Well I am taking all the advice on paper an in action. One thing is would I be in overkill if I full lenght sized, swaged the primer pocket, cleaned pocket with a brush, small base size, then install primer, powder and bullet, and finally used a Lee collet crimp. Maybe I'm trying to reinvent or makes this too hard, but 223 seems to be the only size I have problems with. I have loaded 20 or so indifferent batches from the advice given here, but not tried any of the loads yet. I will keep you all posted on results. I have been told that once full lenght sized if the bullet ( no matter what case) is going to be used in the same gun then small base is all that is needed after first FL sizing. Agree or what.
NRA Life Member
Posts: 69 | Location: caseyville, IL | Registered: 11 January 2012
I think we have had 2 dozen threads where this crap has been the problem.
I don't think you need the small base at all. Just do an adequate job of sizing the cases with a good lube and let the ram dwell at the top a second. BTW are you also loading these rounds in a progressive like a Dillon 550?
Posts: 13978 | Location: http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/tarawa2.jpg | Registered: 03 December 2008
The H335 at 25.5 should be good, I load 52 SMK with 25 and WSR primers. How is ignition with a "standard primer"? Which primer ar eyou using?
Which cases are you loading? If it is not a crimped primer swaging may not be needed. Over swaging is bad too. It lossens pockets. I'd go ahead and deprime and size in the same step. Depriming seperately didn't gain any thing. The only thing I deprime seperately now is brass going into a wet tumbler. Depends onhow dirty the pockets are if you want to brush or not. It's not a benchrest round.
I don't crimp but it might depend on the dies.
A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003
I have been told that once full lenght sized if the bullet ( no matter what case) is going to be used in the same gun then small base is all that is needed after first FL sizing.
I think your confused on these two-"Full Length" & "Small Base" dies . Both full length size the brass. The Small Base just more. Always FL size for autos.
quote:
From RCBS Q. I see a Small Base Die Set listed for my caliber. Do I need these or should I buy a Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set? How does each set differ?
A. The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily.
Or maybe i am confused? I have loaded many rounds for different autos using RCBS standard FL dies. No problems.
Posts: 1295 | Location: USA | Registered: 21 May 2001
Thanks guys. When I reload I am using multi name case, fed, rem, pmc.... Yes I guess I was confused on full and small base dies, I thought small bas e only did the base so I would be doing overkill. Thanks again.
NRA Life Member
Posts: 69 | Location: caseyville, IL | Registered: 11 January 2012
In a semi-auto I also am using H335(24.5 gr.) with a 62 grain bullet and a remington 7 1/2 primer and so far this combination shoots and feeds great. Cases are sized in a RCBS sb full length sizer and as a third step crimped with a Lee factory crimp die. I also use a Wilson case gauge to make sure the cases have been sized properly. Check your cases to see if they are sized properly and also check to see if your OAL is to long to work with your magazines. If using aftermarket mags the internal deminsions could be slightly different than those that Ruger makes/sells.
Originally posted by magnumlaod: Thanks guys. When I reload I am using multi name case, fed, rem, pmc.... Yes I guess I was confused on full and small base dies, I thought small bas e only did the base so I would be doing overkill. Thanks again.
I have loaded for both my new AR-15 and for a friend's Mini-14 with no issues. How is your sizing die adjusted? Did you screw it down until it touched the shellholder when the ram is raised on the press? Depending on your die or chamber, that may not be enough. You may need to raise the ram, screw the die down until it touches the shell holder, then lower the ram, turn in the die an additional quarter to a half turn, lock it down and then try resizing your cases. Are you lubricating the inside of the case necks when you size them? If you don't sometimes the expander will actually stretch the case neck when being drawn back through the neck and overlength cases can cause chambering or pressure issues when fired. I use RCBS Case Lube 2 which is water soluable. I wipe off each case with a wet towel and then dry them with a dry towel. (That is after I tumble them to clean them before lubing and sizing them. Have you checked your case lengths after sizing? Make sure they are not overlength. I have had cases that needed trimming after a single firing. Let us know how it goes.
Bullets are pretty worthless. All they do is hang around waiting to get loaded.
Posts: 515 | Location: kennewick, wa | Registered: 18 May 2004
Yeah. Small base dies are mostly useless pieces of hardware sold by the reloading die makers to make more sales; 99% of those using them, do not need them; they just need some good reloading practices. Standard FL dies will fit most rifles' chambers.
Posts: 17275 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009
Now, after3 years, the question is ( drum roll ) was the problem ever solved??? roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003
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roger
