Hey All'

Im not new to reloading, but, I am new to loading for auto pistols and need some advice. Although the books say not to crimp if there's no cannelure, I feel the need to taper crimp the belled out mouth of the case after seating the bullet because it head spaces off of the mouth. I also think it will hold the bullet tighter in the case and be able to stand the rigger's of auto feeding and recoil without moving. Are my theories right or wrong?

Im loading with new Star-Line 10 mm brass, and Im assuming it's already sized and ready to go except for putting a bell on the case mouth. Is my assumption correct?
10mm auto, 180gr Hornady HP-XTP (NO CANNELURE) StaLine brass, Colt Delta Elite

What would be a good powder to start with? I don't want a load that's so hot it batters the slide, but I don't want it wimpy either. I want to use the same load for self-defense that I target shoot with. In other words I want a powder that get's the most velocity with the least amount of pressure. This way I can use loads that are well below max and still have the velocity I want with out the high pressure. Do things work like this, or am I having a pipe dream? I already have a couple powders picked out, but, I have the feeling my theory is going get blown out of the water on this one. HS-6...Blue Dot, Power Pistol...Hi-Skor 800X

I believe pressure signs will be different in autoloaders, and harder to detect then in revolvers or rifles. Is this true? If so, I would appreciate any information or tips you can give me.

Is there anything else I need to know that was not mentioned above for loading this cartridge?

Thanks
Bob

1. Always full-length resize new brass.

2. Pistol cases, like your 10mm, headspace on the case mouth, so the seater die, or separate crimp die will give a 'taper' crimp. (Revolvers get a 'roll' crimp into the cannelure.) Straighten out the bell, then give a little more but don't overdo it or the brass will actually pull away from the rest of the bullet making it looser.

3. Pressure pipe dream? Yes, there are no free lunches! Higher speed needs high pressures, all else being equal. But all loadbooks have backed off the rifle-like pressures when this round was first designed. Not much was gained as the law of diminishing returns took over.

4. My load book lists AA#9, 13.5 grains max, 1.25" OAL, CCI300 primer, gives your 180XTP out of a 5" barrel 1242fps @34,100psi.
Work up your load from 12.2 grains. #9 is a singularly good choice for top loads in the 10mm.

I've used BD & 800X. The pressure w/ 800x are lower for a sim. vel. but 800x is iffy in a powder measure & I hand weigh those charges. BlueDot is a good powder but too much muzzle flash for a SD load, same w/ PP IMO. I like HS7 for a wroking load but it has been recently discontinued. Longshot seems to be the heir to HS7 so I need to try it. I also like AA#7. Check the on line powder data available from the manuf. for max. loads. Taper crimping is the norm for semiauto rounds so your die set should be fine.
You are right, pressure signs are diff. to see in semiauto rounds. Use book data, stay within the vel. parameters & you will be fine.

Hi Bob,

I load for 10mm Glock and currently using starline brass with Hornady 155gr & 180gr XTP. I haven't tried alot of different powders, I have been using Tite-group with very good success in 155gr & 180gr and also just started using power pistol in the 180gr and looking promising.

I have the 4 die carbide set from Lee and crimp all rounds for the 10mm, using the carbide factory crimp die that also has a carbide post sizer that makes sure the round should chamber through your gun reliably.

I load a 180gr gold dot over 12gr of Accurate #7, should be running around 1200fps

RHys, your 12gr load is on the warm side so proceed w/ caution.

Hey Guys'
Thanks for all of the replies. They were very helpful. I checked my Hornady ND three die set and found them to have a roll crimp. I thought that was strange being they make all their .400" dia. bullets with no cannelure. I guess I'll be calling Midway tomorrow for a taper crimp die. They know how to make you spend your money , don't they? I also need to buy a Hornady shell-holder because I have their trimmer, and no other brand will fit it.

Thanks again,Bob

No straight-walled semi-auto pistol cartridge die set should come with a roll crimper. Hornady must have screwed up. Contact them about a free replacement of the correct taper crimp variety.

It is very unlikely that your cases will need trimming. Straight-walled semi-auto pistol cases like your 10mm just don't seem to grow in length.

I know the load I use is on the stiff side , but it is one that I worked up to. I went as high as 12.5 but you could start to see mild cratering of the primers. I could back them down to the medium velocity specs but if I was doing that I would just use a .40 S&W.

Hi Dave'

I called Hornady and talked to their tech person. He said they tried putting a taper-crimp in their dies in the past, but it did not work. He said a sleeve would come down and pinch the case mouth before the bullet was seated and screwed things up. So they put a roll-crimp in their pistol die's. The sleeve he was talking about must be the sliding alignment sleeve that comes in the Custom Grade New Dimension pistol die's. I know RCBS has piston die's with taper-crimps. I might buy a RCBS seater die with a taper-crimp in steed of Hornady's taper die.I wonder if I can use these same die's for 40 S&W?

The reason I was going to trim the cases was to have all of the crimps in the same place on the case mouth. I measured the case length's and found them fairly close with the exception of some that were about .004" longer then the rest.

Bob

That's not unusal Bob, many guys seat in one step & crimp in another to prevent bullet deformation. You didn't say if you were loading on a single stage or progressive. You can use the roll crimp but you have to be very carefull & just turn the case mouth back in flush to the bullet shank.

Hi Fred'
I have a progressive and a single stage press. I feel I have more control using the single stage, so I'll use that until I get things squared away. My single stage is an old Pacific C press I bought in the late fifties or early sixties and it still works fine. The only bad thing is it's size. It won't handle .300 RUM, 7 MM Mag or .338 Win Mag that I load for. It can handle everthing else up to and including 30-06. It's a pain loading the big stuff on the progressive because I weigh my powder on a beam scale. Also, setting up the die for partial FL sizing I have to cycle the press a number of times to get to a station where I can get the case out of the press. Then I readjust put the case back in and start over again. Maybe I'll break down and get a new single stage.

Bob

I hear that Bob. I started on a RCBS Jr. When I started shooting the bigger magnum rounds it was such a PITA to load the longer rounds. So, I bought a RCBS AmmoMaster. It is designed for the 50BMG so it obviously handles anything I can throw at it.

You CAN use the same dies for the 40S&W as for the 10mm. In fact they are marked that way. Every 3 die pistol set I have has the roller crimp die rather than the taper crimp, so, for my semi autos I have had to buy a separate taper crimp die. Not a big deal. The 10mm in modern pistols is a fine cartridge. 180grains at 1200 fps is a max 40 S&W load. You should be able to get 1200 with a 200 gr. bullet with the 10mm. There is a web site at Glock Talk that deals only with the 10mm. Lot's of good information there. I have an EAA 10mm in the Elite Match model. Get a 22lb. spring.
Peter.

FWIW Peter, you will be hard presses to safely get a 180gr @ 1200fps in the 40s&w, more like 1100fps max. & then only w/ a few powders & compresses loads.

Fred, you may be right, but I think I got close. I will have to check my loads and targets. I am not a "speed freak", but was trying to find an accurate load that was still effective. There have been other threads on the relative merits of the 40 and 10mm. I have just purchased some 200 grain bullets and am trying them out in my 10mm. Accuracy of the 180's has been very good.
Peter.

Bob jr,

Hornady makes some good bullets, and I have one of their case annealing kit that works well, but I have always shied away from their die sets. Maybe from hearing problems like yours.

I load all my straight-walled pistol and revolver cartridges on a Dillon SDB machine. Dillon knows that pistols use taper crimps.

I also use a Dillon RL550B for my rifle cartridges and the bottle-necked pistol 357SIG. I let the Dillon powder measure charge my handgun cases. But, I too measure my rifle loads on a scale. You must not be using a 550B or else you'd know that Dillon provides a funnel at station #2 in place of their powder measure. I weigh my charge and then dump it into the case through that funnel. Then I pull the handle and do the next, and so on.

After 10+ years of using Dillon progressives, the only single stage press I invested in was a Forster Co-Ax to see if my .22 target ammo could be made more accurate. I'm waiting on Graf's to deliver a competition seater die, but so far my groups have not been significantly smaller.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Fred, you may be right, but I think I got close. I will have to check my loads and targets. Peter.

It sounds like you didn't chronograph. Anything but that & it's a WAG. The 40s&w seems to run best w/ 180gr around 1000fps. I like the 165gr about 1100fps. The 10mm runs the 200gr right @ 1200fps but I prefer the 180gr their too.

Fred/Dave'
A few year's back I was contemplating buying a progressive press. I could not decide which one was right for me. I was weighing one against the other.(Dillon, Hornady, RCBS) That Christmas my son's made the decision for me with a Hornay L&L Auto Progressive press. So far Im very plesed with its operation. My intension was to load pistol and revolver ammo on it, and use the single stage for rifle. At the time I didn't know the big cases would not fit the single stage.

Dave you gave me a good idea wth the funnel in station two on your Dillon. I know I can rig something up similar and make it work on my press. Why didn't I think of that on my own.

Bob

Fred, au contraire, I said I would check my loads and targets. I generally write the chrono results on the target. Seeing as I am not at home, I cannot do that! You seem to agree with my statement about getting 1200fps with a 200gr. bullet out of the 10mm. I guess the disagreement is with my statement that "180grains at 1200 fps is a max 40 S&W load."?
Post edited: Handloads.com shows two loads for the 180 gr. 40 S&W, one at 1172 fps and the other at just over 1160, using VV N350, which is my powder of choice for the 38 Super.
Peter.

Maybe w/ a 5"bbl. Peter, but I still doubt it based on my own data. I have not used VVN350 though. Anyone post pressures w/ that load??? The VV site shows 6.6gr as max. for 1126fps from a 5 1/2"bbl. You might be able to push that abit but dicey in some pistols.

Good point Fred. Based on Matt Burkett's experiences, I have exceeded max in 38 Super and N350. This load, which makes major, is also my most accurate load. I just checked and I do not have chrono information on my heavier 350 loads. I have just loaded some up, and will try to chrono them in the next few days. 8.0 grains is however, quite a bit above the max of 6.6 in the VV book that I have. My guns do have a supported chamber however.
Peter.