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I have a new rifle that I'm thinking about putting sandpaper to the end of the stock to float the barrel. I have heard pros and cons on this issue. I was in the gun shop a while back and over heard the conversation that you always want a little pressure under the barrel at the end of the forearm. The guy was showing a Weatherby, which is what I want to float. So this has made me think as what to do. I have also heard the you always want the barrel to float free. The old saying goes, " If you can pass a dollar bill under the barrel all the way down the stock. Then you'll be at your most accuracy" So my question is this. Do I float or not? (I dont wanna spend the money yet to bed)  | ||
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How does it shoot the way it is?  If it aint broke dont fix it.  | |||
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I float them all. If a rifle needs forend pressure to shoot right then there's something wrong with it to begin with. Forend pressure is a band aid job. | |||
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You can put a cardboard shim under the barrel in front of the recoil lug to simulate a free-floated barrel. It should give an indication of performance. | |||
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That will lead to impropper bedding and will definetily not render representative results. | |||
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Mello (you are), Welcome! I always freefloat my barrel, more than the thickness of a dollarbill! I want to have enough space to get a cleaning rag under the barrel after a wet day! Besides, if you use the 'hasty sling method' for accurate and better shooting, you must freefloat your barrel! Otherwise your POI will be some some 4 inches low at 100 yards! Nice day, Jan. | |||
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Some barrels shoot best with some upward pressure from the barrel channel in the forend. Others shoot best frre-floated, and then there are some which require full-length bedding from the front of the receiver all the way to the forend tip. The problem we all have is that all barrels are individuals, and each has its own requirements! My advice is never alter the barrel channel until you have run a thorough test to see how a rifle shoots as it came from the factory. If it doesn't shoot well, then it's time to try free-floating. If that does not seem to make it shoot sto your satisfaction, then experiment with various thicknesses of material (business card(s), etc., in the forend tip to see if things improve, etc, etc. Some people automatically (knee-jerk, IMO!!) sand out the barrel channel before they do anything else. Now, I admit free-floating will make the rifle shoot PRETTY CONSISTENTLY, but who wants a rifle that consistently shoots 4" groups @ 100 yards?? Test it first! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!"
I disagree with this idea. All barrels vibrate. Some vibrate more than others, based upon their diameter, stiffness, and length. Some superb barrels REQUIRE vibration dampening, so the bullet exits the muzzle at the same point in its' vibration pattern. Consequently, some superb barrels shoot best dampened. Usually, it is the longer, thinner ones that require the most dampening. However, you NEVER KNOW about a specific one until you test it! For example, this 5-shot, 100-yard group,[b] AND MANY MORE LIKE IT, was fired with a Douglas Premium Grade barrel, 26" medium weight, in a Myrtlewood stock which has pressure points in the forend. I have not fired in free-floated, but cannot believe that it could be improved much!  "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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 If it don't shoot with a pressure point then float the barrel. If it don't shoot that way then put the pressure point back but in a different place. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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[quote: (1) "I have also heard the you always want the barrel to float free." (2) "The old saying goes, " If you can pass a dollar bill under the barrel all the way down the stock. Then you'll be at your most accuracy" Wrong. Tbat's low grade BS feed by those who know enough to be dangerous, don't listen. First, as the two previous posts sort of say, NO RULE OF THUMB is any good except to measure thumbs! And NO blanket statement about rifles, accuarcy or reloading is an absolute. Including the ideas that sporting rifles get best accuarcy by floating and reloads that touch the rifling, etc. It's just no so! Second, IF your rifle shoots better floated, no paper thin clearance is anything but a disaster to accuracy! That tiny .003" gap will dissappear with any pressure, from any direction, each time you fire. A sling, a rest, even your forehand pressure will easily bend a stock enough to make erratic contact with the barrel at varying points and that destroys accuracy. If you really want to float a barrel the gap MUST be enough to preclude any stock bending that MIGHT result in barrel contact. Really stiff stocks need maybe .080", or more, of clearance. Most stocks will need more! Shoot your rifle to establish a base line for accuracy before making any changes at all. Otherwise you will never know if what you did helped or hurt. | |||
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This is definitely if it ain't broke scenario. As an example, Remington 700s (which some people don't like) are one of the most consistently accurate out of the box sporters and all have a pressure point. I have probably purchased 1/2 dozen new ones in the last 10 years and every one of them has been sub moa with handloads with very limited load devlopment. I find action bedding more important than barrel floating. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well guys here's my story about this gun. It's a Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe in a 25.06. It's the oddest thing. I took about 12 different loads with different powders and different bullets and weights and shot paper @ 100 yards. Everything I shot grouped between 3-1/2 to 5". Which I think it should do better. I shoot 3 rounds of the same load and then I always let the barrel cool off. The odd thing is this. It appears as if every first shot would hit basically a few inches DIRECTLY above the bullseye and the other two would be off the left or right or high of the bullseye. I started noticing this pattern, 1st shot almost directly above the bullseye the the other two going "where ever" Now get this. I said let me try something different so I moved the front sandbag futher away from front of the forearm, used one hand to grab the trigger then wrapped the other hand around my trigger hand. (Kinda like shooting a pistol) AND POOF..... I got an 1-3/4 group at TWO hundred yards not 100. Go Figure!! So I dunno what to think. Was the barrel heat causing the stock to put more pressure on the barrel? Was my hand touching the forarm making it shoot different? Which brings me back to..."To Float or not to float"? I have only one problem.... I haven't been able to shoot the load again that shot the best group. I know .. I know... I know....go shoot it again. I am. It's the "first shot" experience with each different load( that I mentioned above) which has me so puzzled. Thanks for any input I Am Mello | |||
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Sounds like it, most likely the first. It can happen IF the barrel has light contact somewhere it shouldn't the heat expansion makes the contact harder. Your variation with hand contact on the stock is exactly the kind of thing I was refereing too in my first post. That's the kind of varying stock contact a paper thin clearance almost guarentees. | |||
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My Rem700 30-06 with Pac-Nor barrel and McMillan stock shoots best with the barrel fully bedded. That's after trying floated and pressure points. | |||
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Sounds to me like it needs the barrel to float . Placing a rest further back away from the fore end and the rifle shoots better groups , correct ?. Then pressure and or heat ( makes no difference which ) is pressing on something up front in the barrel channel . Or your stock is floppy in the fore arm area where you grasp or rest it . As others have said , some barrels prefer pressure some don't. I know of one way to determine what yours will like best . A fine shim of how ever many thousands is required to put pressure under your barrel . .375" too .500" in width , with the length being enough so as to slide it down the barrel channel . Now go to the range one load ( which ever you have already determined was your best group Use it . ( I shoot # 5 shots groups about 1 - 1.5 Minutes apart clean then shoot a fowler and repeat test ) . I want to make everything the same as close as possible for my testing . Place the shim either up front or fully back then work one way to see where the pressure needs to be . Fire 5 rounds per test station so to speak . I've done this before and I'm NO Gun Smith , it has worked for me . I've also found some actions like solid bedding free floated barrels , others needed pressure some times 3 " away from where I thought they should have been . I made sure with the above method before just bedding and hoping . Shoot Straight know Your target . ...  | |||
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Hummmmmm DrK. You now have me thinking! I know the rifle has a pressure point about 3" from the end of the forearm. How do I get rid of that without sanding the stock? Do I use a thicker shim to raise it off that original pressure point? I know I need to get the wip or vibration or what ever you want to call it "tuned" on the barrel. I think that was Brownings thinking when they put the BOSS on the end of their barrels. It was to change, correct, tune, or what ever term one wishes to use on barrel wip. Come to think of it...does Browning still put the BOSS on guns??? I was thinking about putting a shim UNDER the recoil lug but I was afraid it would damage the stock. I also read MCFOX's reply ..
I'd hate to damage this stock. The wood is FANTASTIC on this rifle. Plus I had to send one in on a used .300 Win Mag about 12 years ago that I practically stole at a gun show. The cost to repair the stock was 150.00 way back then if my memory is correct. Who knows the cost these days! Thanks for any advise. I Am Mello | |||
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This is a technique recommended by John Barsness. If the shim is going to put a lot of lateral pressure on the stock, you probably don't want to take the risk of damage. BTW, the shim goes under the barrel, not the recoil lug. Put your hand between the forearm and rest. If you're getting a lateral spread of your group, you may have inadequate tip pressure. Try the shim under the forearm. Also, check the rest of the forearm for adequate clearance. A doubled-over dollar bill is the usual gauge. You don't have to do anything to your stock until you get an idea of the problem (if you have one). Bedding can be done simply by using hardware-store epoxy, masking tape, and neutral shoe polish as a release compound on the metal. For a hunting rifle, bedding at the recoil lug is usually all that's necessary. | |||
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Mello, I have had both ways work. The only thing I can say about floating is attend a thousand yard bench rest match and see how many guns are floated and how many guns are not. Those guys are the extreme end of the line when it comes to what makes a barrel accurate. Joe "I can't be over gunned because the animal can't be over dead"-Elmer Keith | |||
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