I was considering a 300 Whisper barrel for my contender and thought why can't I load those big 220 Grain Moly SMK's in my 30-30 and be done with it?

I'm not a big fan of pain and have done a bit of research but I'm not 100% sure of a load that won't blow up. My theory is that I can seat the bullet very deeply into the cartridge and take up a lot of the dead space or even use the poly fill to keep the powder located by the (magnum?) primer. This will also let the bullet jump to the lands a bit and reduce that initial pressure. anyone here done such a thing. Initial research shows some people have loaded .308's with pistol powder (4.0 to 5.5 grains) with successful results.

Comments?

If it were me I would contact Sierra and tell them what your thoughts are, my guess is they would have some data for you. They are great folks to deal with and why not get it from the "horses mouth" so to speak.
Great idea by the way.
Good luck with your endeavor

I would think you would need a much faster twist than the 30-30 has to be able to stabilize the heavy 30's. What is the twist rate of your 30-30?

It's an older "super 14" Barrel, I haven't measured it but from what I've read it looks like there's a pretty good chance it's 1 in 10 which is where the whisper is best as well. I'll measure it tomorrow.

Collins-
SSK uses a 1:8 for the Whisper so that it handles the heavy (220-240 grain) bullets. The TC factory Whisper barrels CAN NOT stabilize these projectiles.

Those slower twists will not stabilize a 220 grain MKing....

however, I have stabilized 220 grain RNs in a leveraction 30/30 with a one in 12 twist to it...

I always thought a NEF in a 30/30 would be a very handy truck gun and it throated to handle 220 grain RNs was the intention...

at those velocities also, the RN or the MK really wouldn't have much effect on flatness of trajectory...

A guy I know locally has a 300 Whipser he put on a Stevens 200 bolt action... it has a one in 10 twist, as it was a Adams and Bennett barrel blank and he chambered it himself...

He is using RL 7 on the fireball case.. and is shooting 210 grain Lead cast bullets he makes at home.. and the one in 10 stabilizes those fine...

Although I do a lot of light loads in rifles.. I'd have to know what MV you are looking at.. and then also if you are going to use cast or not...

First off, if what you mean is a 300 Whisper aka 221 - 300 originally developed by JD JOnes, then thre are plenty of forums devoted to the Whisper-look around.
Second, I have a 300 Whisper suppressed in a custom made with a Rem 700 action, Jewell trigger and Lilja stainless steel barrel in a 1:8 twist so I have accumulated a fair bit of knowledge on the caliber.
You won't stabilize the 220 and esp. the 240 SMK's in a barrel less than an 8 or 9 twist.
The T/C barrels are best for something in the range of the 165-168 or less driven faster than sub-sonic speeds.
If you wish, feel free to PM me and I will try to answer whatever your concern are or questions you may have.

Gary

I've had a little time with the Whisper and JD too and the twist rate Jones decided upon is intended to under-stabilize the 240 gr SMK. Just barely stable enough to get to target accurately, so it tumbles on impact. The round depends on those long bullets tumbling in place of expansion, which can't be depended upon at Whisper velocities. And still fit in an AR magazine; it's primary platform at the time.

Many thanks for the help. I guess my real question was "How can I safely load a ~200 gn bullet in a 30-30 case and drive it at 1000 fps?"

Thompson offers a 300 Whisper in a 10 inch barrel that has a 1-10 twist so I'm hoping I'm OK with the twist rate.

It's the secondary explosion effect I'm worried about.

Yes, but you'll need to use pistol or shotgun powder. According to Quickload, 10.0 grains of Blue Dot will push a 200 gr Lapua Mega 1146. Quickload is notoriously conservative on the straighter cases so its probably closer to 1000 fps. pressure is only 20,000 psi and max is 42,000 so that should give you some idea.

The Mega is a blunt bullet but not a round nose. That charge is 45% of case volume so there's plenty of room to deep-seat pointy bullets if needs be, or you can put some filler in it.

25.0 grns of R-19 does the same thing (21,000 psi) with 88% case capacity but you'll have a fireball the size of an F-150.

Collins try some accurate 5744 , Hodgen has a powder for cowboy action ( not sure of the name). Both should produce subsonic loads, with out the use of filler. Do not use filler with either of these two powders.

I use 45-50 grs in a 470 nitro with 500 grs bullets for loads around 1600 fps.


JD

JD, I used to use 5744 too until a friend recently blew up his Merkel 470 with a 45% load. The barrels have been to two different metalurgists and is now at Merkel and so far all say it looks like classic detonation. I know that's not supposed to happen with 5744 but until Merkel comes back with something more definitive, I'm done with it for low density loadings.

That cowboy stuff looks real interseting; super bulky. Have you tried it in rifle rounds?

The powder you boys are probably referring to is Trail Boss....

Not at 1000 fps, but I have loaded 220 grains RNs in a 30/30 and the one in 12 twist on it stabilized it just fine.....

But when we get to this question, I have to ask, what is what you are trying to accomplish, not be more simply accomplished with a 1000 fps load and a 170 grain cast bullet?

Yeah it is 30 grains lighter, but it will open up being lead.. they are plentiful and easily gotten.. recoil is nothing as I load that up all the times for the kids to shoot...it is pretty darn accurate....

Cowboy action data is around for plenty of loads for that bullet weight and that velocity...

If you don't cast your own bullets ( I don't) I purchase Oregon Later Cast bullets in 170 grains.. they are available in 165, 170 and 170 Gas Checked.. at pretty reasonable prices.. at least here in Oregon...

Unique works pretty good, as well as Blue Dot..

8 to 10 grains of Unique will work just fine..

Those loads would be a blast in a contender, or a New England...

Tig, do you have any details on the event with the double and 5744. I've used it for a few years but hearing about your report gives me the willies. Would you mind starting a thread in Double Rifles, as I know a number of folks have used 5744 loads in doubles.

Thanks, Bob

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
...I always thought a NEF in a 30/30 would be a very handy truck gun ...

It is, especially with some 147gr FN-FAL FMJs and some of the Blue Dot Reduced Loads.

One of my buddies ordered the wrong Bullet and ended up with 1000 of the FN-FALs. He was not happy about it at all until he saw how well they shot in his NEF.

quote:

Originally posted by bobc:
Tig, do you have any details on the event with the double and 5744. I've used it for a few years but hearing about your report gives me the willies. Would you mind starting a thread in Double Rifles, as I know a number of folks have used 5744 loads in doubles.

Thanks, Bob

I will as soon as Merkel is done with it. There may be contributing factors that should be discussed asd well. With all the thousands of 5744 rounds fired, a sample of one needs to be disected as far as possible.

Thanks. Sorry for the Merkel owner, but somewhat relieved that there may be more to the story. Bob

Great info everyone. I've loaded up some 200 Grain and will shoot them as soon as it's not raining sideways and 33 degrees F.

JD, Trail Boss is the powder. "Preferred powder of Sheriffs and Outlaws" is on the label. They have a sense of humor at least. It's pretty amazing stuff. They actually have a 45-70 load of 8 grains with a velocity of 700fps. 16 grains fills the case. The full plastic canister that's normally half full with 1 lb of powder is only 9 oz.

Thanks for the info

Collins

Yeah Collins,

I picked some of that up.. they only put 9 ozs in the container, but it is full at that volume.. looks like little pieces of oatmeal...

I tried a few rounds with it so far..

chronographed a 55 grain FMJ in a 223 at 1800 fps ( 9 grains load)

then I tried it in a 30/30....10 grains at 1250 fps...

then in a 30/06 at 10 grains....

my son shot the 30/30 load, and after it "recoiled" his comment was " that's it???"

kinda kicks like a big BB gun...

I called IMR and their only instructions on it was to not compress the powder when loading it...

so far I have worked out. max volume in a 223 case is 9 grains, and 15 grains in a 308 sized case, and 21 grains in a 30/06 sized case... and 10 grains in a 30/30 sized case...

I see a lot of shooting fun with this powder.... and one doesn't have to dress up like Jesse James to be able to do so...

I was going to load up some of it in a 444 this evening and try it with some XTP Hornady bullets....

There is a lot of good home defense applications with this powder.. particularly in a long gun....

cheers
seafire