Cool when things come together . That wife of your sounds a gem, she would not have a sister by any chance...
- mike

New load on line but no 7 x 64 and no 9,3 x 64 , and it's an european powder factory ...

Saludos

Daniel

Hmmm, yesterday evening I was reloading for my 6.5x55 using the new VV manual. I figured I'd load a couple of 120 grs Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets using VV N560 powder and Lapua Brass. I followed the directions for a similar bullet in the new guide.



I assembled a few rounds with 51.5 grains of N560 but today a friend of mine said that he shot a few rounds with the same setup earlier except using only 49 grs of powder. He added that his primers became visibly flat so he thought this would be near the max load.



After scratching my head a little while wondering if and what I did wrong, I came across this difference between the VV 02/2002 manual and the new one which I was using, the 01/2004.



For a 120 grs HPBT bullet the 02/2002 edition says:

N560 - Min 46.8 grs, Max 49.4 grs.



The 01/2004 edition says:

N560 - Min 48.1 grs, Max 52.7 grs.



Usually I start somewhere in the middle between the Min and Max load but this is the first time I'm really wondering if the load I've put together is safe or if I should pull them bullets out and follow the 02/2002 guide like before?



Is it normal to see such variations between manuals from the same manufacturer? Any thoughts on this one?

Hummm......

From my firing I found the useful range to be:
N-560 From 46.8 grains to 49.3 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

Oh, and I also have the new manual available for download at http://stevespages.com/page8b.htm

Yes, this strikes me as a bit odd since it's a common belief that manuals tend to be on the safe side when it comes to power charges. 52.7 grains sounds pretty hot compared to my friends experience and yours as well as the older manual



I guess I'll pull the bullets

Steve, lot of good stuff there. Thanks!

Hello Petur,

Remember, the Nosler Bal. Tip is not a HP bullet, and it's exceedingly long. I use it in my 6.5x55 with
43.0grs of VV550 for 2800fps and seat it out to 3.085", and it's quite accurate. In fact I use only
VV550 and 560 powders along with the Lapua Scenar bullets in 108, 123 and 139grs. All of them shoot
quite well. I've been pleasantly surprised. You can also request the reloading manual from the website
and they'll mail it to you. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I can't comment on whether the data published in the new manual is safe or not, but I did notice that both loads and expected (max) velocities have been increased when compared to the 1995 manual. As a matter of fact, I always thought the 1995 data sounded pretty feeble. So with the new data in hand, I compared maybe 15-20 loads in calibers such as .222 Rem, .223 Rem, .22 PPC, 6mm BR, 6.5x55, .270 Win, .30-06 and .300 Win Mag. In all cases (but one), both max load and max velocity had increased. In the odd case, the max load with powder type X had been reduced, but the expected velocity increased.

I don't know what that all means? Were their previous data too conservative? Have they got new pressure measuring equipment? New test barrels? Or even a new chronograf?

I compared the new VV data to VV loads from other manuals (Nosler lists quite a few loads using VV powder). There it was harder to pick out a trend - if any then perhaps the VV data loads showed higher powder weights, but velocities were comparable. Maybe it all comes down to the usual difference between manual A and manual B??

I did notice the new data seems to have lost quite a few European cartridges (7x65R, 7x64, 6.5x57(R) etc). VV used to have a separate "metric" data collection containing more metric cartridge data. Maybe a new version of that is still to come??

- mike

Some of it still looks somewhat anemic.
Check out the 338 Lapua, e.g.

For another anemic loading, check out the 260 Rem! Max charge is 41.2g and highest velocity is 2,992 for a 100g bullet??? They don't show a load with VV-550 for the 100g -108g bullets which should be about perfect. You can hit 3,300 fps in a 24" barrel without pushing things. Nosler lists 3,365 fps using H-414. Almost 3,375 fps difference in max velocity. My 260 AI cronos at 3,340 fps shooting a 100g Partition and H-4350 and I'm not pushing the envelope.



Definitely the worst loads I've ever seen for a 260 Rem. Could it be they want to make their beloved 6.5x55 look good?



HogWild



Edit: After checking again, I noticed they were using an 18.75" barrel. That would account for some of the descrepancy.........but not all.........and doesn't excuse the failure to test the most apropriate powders.

Yeah, but look at it on the bright side, at least they got a LOT more optimistic about their loads since the 1995 data manual. Nosler does list some VV loads, but not nearly all VV powders are listed for all calibers - understandably so with all the powders available to US shooters at reasonable cost. For the rest of the world, VV powders are often a good and cheaper (as opposed to cheap) alternative, so we are obviously happy to have more data available.

There is a tendency for manuals to be conservative about "little know" cartridges. The .260 Rem - in spite of all its great attributes - is a little used cartridge outside the US. I remember comparing US and European data for the 8mm Rem vs. the 8x68S. US data was optimistic about the 8mm Rem and very conservative about the 8x68S. The European data had it just the other way round. Seems like there is an element of "familiarity" involved with preparing loads??
- mike

I can't disagree with you. One would think they would use SAAMI pressure limits and not make it political.



HogWild

Not sure whether it applies to my example (8mm Rem Mag vs. 8x68S), but not all cartridges have SAAMI specs.

It is sometimes rather mindboggling to gauge some of the differences between SAAMI and CPI. This may sound totally crazy, but were you aware that a SAAMI 7mm is not the same as a CPI 7mm?? There are x thousands in difference. Amazing!
- mike

The one that I noticed and puzzled over was 264WinMag CIP 53000 psi or so out of VV#3 and SAAMI 64,000 out of A-Square.