Among the powders available from Norma, IMR, Accurate Arms, Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori Oy, and Winchester... which ones would be roughly equivalent to those available from Sonchem?

Thank you.

Russ

Russ - It is difficult to really compare one powder burn rate to another. There are approximations, however, it is not advisable to arbitrarily substitute charge weights. I have never seen somchem outside of RSA, so I have no experience with it.

Here is the somchem web site http://www.somchem.co.za/

Russ,
Hey, no patronizing or precautionary words needed. I know from whence you speak. It is a good idea to compare the powders as best we can, so as to communicate with our RSA brethren.

The book by Swan, Botes, and Smit, _Hunting Africa, a Practical Guide_ (first edition, 2000)has a table on page 81 that purports to show "approximate equivalence within 5%," from fast to slow.

S321 ~ AA2230 ~ Norma N201

S335 ~ IMR3031 ~ AA2460 ~ RWS R902

S341 ~ IMR4895 ~ BLC-2 ~ AA2495 ~ W748 ~ N203 ~ ADI AR2206 (sic)(should be AR2208)

S365 ~ IMR4350 ~ H205 ~ AA4350 ~ RL10 (sic) (must be a typo for RL19) ~R904 ~ AR2209

S385 ~ Norma MRP ~ AR2213

I cannot vouch for these equivalencies within 5% burn rate, that would require some study, and you see I have found one typo in the table at first glance, but that is what the book says.

Isn't there a new powder out called RL-10? I do think it is faster than what the typo says.

[ 08-01-2002, 15:04: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

DaggaRon:

Thank you very much for taking the time to enter the powder ratings.

This helps me a lot for a project I may be undertaking for a friend. An acquaintance of this friend has only used the Sonchem powders but, on my side of the pond, such powders aren't (that I'm aware of) available. I was looking for something in the "4350" range, for which you supplied information.

Again, thank you.

Russ

Russel!

here is a list over the powders you mentioned

http://gunlinks.zibycom.com/members/002245268/Site2/burnrate.html

Anders �sterberg

Russ:

Just out of curiosity, what are you trying to achieve?

The Sonchem reloading manual I picked up in RSA showed data for the .308 and 30-06 not up to the velocities I get with H380 and RL22. The man I spoke to in the store said the Sonchem was very sensitive to changes in heat.

Why use this powder??? Is it cheaper than others ?? Thanks

Moon:

All three 4350s and Scot's 4351 are lower-pressure powders for applications such as the .375 H&H Magnum. You can't get enough into the case to even come close to having pressure problems.

Russ

RAB,

S341 ~ IMR4895 ~ BLC-2 ~ AA2495 ~ W748 ~ N203 ~ ADI AR2206

ADI 2206 is like 3031. The one that should go in the above line woud be ADI 2208, known to you as Varget.

Mike

Mike,
I put your correction in the table above. I guess the ADI AR2206 would be closer to IMR3031, but I won't monkey with their table any more. Two errors identified. Thanks.

Ron,

This is how they are suppose to be:

ADI 2205 is H4227 Extreme
ADI 2207 is H4198 Extreme
ADI 2208 is Varget
ADI 2209 is H4350
ADI 2213SC is H4831SC
ADI 2217 is H1000

I don't think there is H3031 Extreme but if there is you can bet it is ADI 2206

A lot of people believe that our discontinued ADI 2214 is Retumbo.

ADI 2218 is 50BMG but I don't know if it is Hodgdon's newer 50 BMG powder.

Note that ADI 2207 is faster than 2206, it was not a typo.

Mike

Mike,
Thanks for the run on the powder ID's.

Here is the mother of all burnrate charts that Yspen pointed out:

http://gunlinks.zibycom.com/members/002245268/Site2/burnrate.html

Enjoyed the informative info on the RSA powders and bullets. As for Rhino Bullets, they will be marketing them in the US from Bil Isebager, according to Kobus at Rhino Bullets. He did not elaborate on what company Mr. Iseberger represented, nor a way to contact him. Just "in a month or two".
Correspondence with Theuns Pool at Somchem revealed that they expect to have their reloading data on the Internet in August (hey, that's now!) They were kind enough to send me a hard copy of the manual.
Ed

HockeyPuck,
Thanks for the article, at your website, on the 450 Barnes Supreme dating it to pre-1949. That is the most info that I have ever found on a Barnes Supreme cartridge. Maybe someday we will learn a little more history of these.

DaggaRon,

Our pleasure. We have a lot of old American Rifleman magazines that we use for research (going back to 1928 or 29, I believe) and I'm hoping to run across mention of the Barnes series of cartridges in them. Someone mentioned to me a month or so ago that a member of the Big Game forum owns a rifle with this chamber and another in the .414 Barnes Supreme. If you run across this gentleman, we'd sure appreciate the flood water capacities of both as well as the dimensions of the .414. (Almost a time capsule.)
Did you have the time to look at the Ackley Double-shouldered .228? Very strange looking number, but I know of a wildcatter working on similar cartridges now and achieving some very nice results.
Regards,
Ed

Hi Russ

In the June 2001, the South African ManMagnum magazine, published an article on the development of the 380gr Rhino bullet. Loads were developed using South African powders, and I am not to sure if it is a good idea to compare these powders with those that you have available - for one your powder do not seem to be as temperature sensitive.

The guy who wrote the article used a Mauser rifle with a 21" barrel. Two loads were developed : 62.5gr of S341 and a duplex load consisting of 31.5gr of S335 and 31.5gr of S365. Velocities of 2060f/sec for the S341 load and 2158f/sec for the duplex load were achieved. Both loads gave MOA accuracy.

In the October 2001 issue of the same magazine a hunting report on the 380 Rhino loads were published. The hunter used a duplex load of 32/32gr S335/S365 for a velocity of 2230f/sec. This was the sixth reported succesfull buffalo hunt using this bullet.

Please proceed with caution when developing this load....

Johan

HockeyPuck,
I am the geezer with 450 and 416 Barnes Supreme rifles.

There was a 404 Barnes Supreme that used .411" bullets. I never heard of a 414 BS, nor does Donnelly list it, so suspect a typo.

John J. Donnelly's _The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions_ shows the specs on these cartridges with their water capacity in grains:

404 BS >> 107.44 grains water .411" bullet
416 BS >> 108.28 " " .416" "
450 BS >> 113.01 " " .458" "

I suspect the Donnelly book may have some errors, but the water capacity data above seems accurate. I am unable to measure water capacity and measure my brass dimensions at the moment, but can later if you need anything on the 416 or 450 BS.

My 416 BS and 450 BS were chambered by Willis Fowler of Anchorage, AK, back in the mid 1980's.

That Ackley Double-Shouldered .228 resembles a creation of the hole-in-the-wall gang at Saeed's place.

I will keep checking your site for new info. Thanks.

J Snyman,
Your countryman, Berger, should heed your post.

J Snyman,
Those loads you listed are pretty good stuff, just handicapped by the short (21") barrel.

A 24" barrel might approach 2150 fps with the 62.5 grains of S341 and the 380 grain Rhino, it would appear.

I just wonder if a drop tube and load compression (not ideal) with S365 were tried?

I still think I would settle for whatever I could get out RL-15, or S341, without having to resort to compressed loads.

If I couldn't get RL-15, I would get a longer rifle barrel than 21" and use the S341 load. A 26" barrel would be trodding close on 2200 fps with the 380 grain Rhino and S341, surely. And that is more than enough.

So why this preoccupation with such short barrels and such heavy bullets in the 375 H&H in RSA?

If the 300 grainer is not heavy enough (which I think it is) then surely the 350 grainer is more than enough if trying to turn the 375 H&H into something different.

The latest marketing ploy of Rhino Bullets? Good for business? Is the 380 grainer here to stay?

I will just use a bigger bore if the 300 grainers in the 375 H&H are not enough. KISS principle applies.

DaggaRon

Sorry that I took so long to reply. I have been away on a hunting trip last week, and so far things have been crazy.

Both my hunting rifles (6mm-223 and 303 Brit) have fairly short barrels (22") and they work fine. I have shot springbuck with them both up to 300m, but a lot of our hunting is done at very short range.

Last week we spent hunting for impala and warthog in Thabazimbi. Very dense acasia thorn trees and tall grass. Visibility seldom more than 50m. The shorter rifle is a definite help. I used a 215gr Rhino at 2060 f/s in my 303 and my buddy a 280gr Cast bullet at 2010f/sec in his 375 H&H. Both gave exelent results with minimal meat damage.

In my experience the heavier bullets at lower velocity in short rifles is the way to go under these circumstances.

Johan