Loading for a friends 240 Wby custom made gun which has a lot of problems. 28" barrel, brno action, but the only bullet it will shoot is TSX 85 grain, about 1". Tried 95 grain Bal Tip, no kidding, 6 different loads with 2 different powders - 11" to 23" pattern. Barely on the paper.

Anyway, started to resize so I could load him up with TSX's and give this piece of *#&% back to him. Decided to full length so adjusted the die 1/4 turn past so the handle cams over and on the first one noticed a BIG difference between the shoulders of the resized and fire formed cases. Pulled out the Stoney POint OAL gauge, didn't have a listing for 240 Wby so used the bushing # A 330 which seemed to fit best. The sized case measured 4.097" and the fire formed measured 4.129".

That's .031" difference. Guess I will just neck size but was wondering - doesn't this measurement mean that the headspace is excessive? Might be the reason it wouldn't shoot the ballistic tips. Don't have a no-go or whatever that is. Should I take it to a gunsmith for verification? Wish I had a factory shell to measure.

Let me see if I got this right. You set the die up for "camming over" and now you have alot of headspace? That would certainly cause alot of headspace. Why not set it up so it has at least 1/4 turn the other direction and no camming over (with a slight gap between the shell holder and the die)and then measure the headspace??
Maybe I'm misreading what you are saying. Anyhow I don't think (especially if this gun has freebore) that headspace will cause this kind of group difference. I can't imagine that there is this kind of difference in any normal rifle--if so it sure speaks highly of the construction of the tsx.
The kind of headspace you are talking about is maybe on the loose side but certainly within safe limits in my book. I've loaded for several factory guns with this much room and even slightly more.

It might be possible that on this shell the die needs to be set back like you say. If I still had a factory cartridge I could measure that, but since all I have are fired cases, I don't know where the shoulder should be according to SAAMI specs. All my other calibers go to full length resizing at a 1/16 to a 1/4 turn past, like the RCBS instructions for the die say. None of them even begin to push the shoulder back until 1/16 turn past. With a heaby 28" barrel this gun should shoot into the same hole. That's the reason I tried the NBT's. When I went to the range with the NBT's, I shot the first group and it was about 15". Couldn't believe it so I had 4 shells that were still loaded with TSX's from the previous loading, so I fired them and they went into an inch. Went back to shoot the other 5 loads of NBT's and they were barely on the paper from one side of the target to the other. It is a controlled round feed but the bolt won't hold the spent shells and drops them during ejection.

Whoever built this gun really screwed it up. I'm just going to load him 20 TSX's and give it back to him. Good riddance!

quote:

That's .031" difference. Guess I will just neck size but was wondering - doesn't this measurement mean that the headspace is excessive? Might be the reason it wouldn't shoot the ballistic tips. Don't have a no-go or whatever that is. Should I take it to a gunsmith for verification?

The 240 Wthby headspaces on the belt, odds are the headspace is fine but the chamber is on the large size. I`d neck size the brass or part size with the die set to just touch the shoulder. The case bouncing around in the chamber doesn`t help accuracy, and if you haven`t played with the OAL the free bore might be a part of the problem also. The Weatherby chambers are known for long leades and this one likely follows suit.

SOAP BOX: I would NEVER just adjust a die down to the shell holder and then resize. There are just too many variables in chambers, dies, and brass to make this a good practice. You also have to decide if you are going to produce SAAMI spec reloads or reloads suited only to the users rifle. There are case gauges to help you determine if a die is resizing correctly. They are worth the investment. I also wish you luck in getting a custom made Weatherby shooting well. I've gotten to the point when I help at the range during sight-in days that I avoid any shooters with a Weatherby. Not to harp on Weatherbys, they can be good. It is just that some of the owners will do ANYTHING, safe or not, to get the max velocity.

Woods, once the brass is fireformed in that chamber the headspace will be right on[for that chamber only] and you should be able to neck size only for a good tight ctg. chamber fit. Not knowing what you mean exactly by a custom gun, I would certainly talk to the "GUNSMITH" that built it. Just my opinion, but I agree with whoever it was that questioned the accuracy of almost any Weatherby cartridge. Also any weatherby should have a very long freebore to keep presure down. I think that it boils down to the fact that the gentleman that built the gun screwed up somewhere or just plain does not know what he is doing. Remington does a better job on a rifle than that[sometimes]. Bob

Woods interesting headspace problem,I have a real problem with a .30-378WBY,but different from yours,the guys here will solve your problem,as for myself I took me five years to figure it out,I dont think now it will take that time

The correct way to FL size is to start with the die screwed down to only size the neck, then screwing it down a little at a time until the shoulder gets bumped enough to easily close the bolt (like on a new case).

What you did was assumed that the chamber matched the reloading die. It later appeared that the chamber was cur .020" too deep. You should not have .031" headspace. Proper headspace is around .010".

The only reason your rifle even fires is due to the belt. Belted magnums headspace on the shoulder, not on the belt. If your rifle was chambered for a conventional cartrige, it would likely misfire. The accuracy problems you encountered could be due to excessive headspace.

Why don't you try sizing the brass to give you .005" headspace, and repeat the test.

A chambercast should also shed some light on this.

Ralph, if a belted case headspaces off the shoulder, what is the belt for? It does H.S. off the belt, as all belted cases do.

b beyer,
The belt on a case is there for one reason, in the cordite days one headspaced off the belt as chambers specs were mostly all different..and if your shooting dangerous game then headspacing off the belt is OK as it gives you a slop fit to the chamber and no chance of not chambering a round...What I am saying is the belt is pretty worthless other than it makes for a very strong case I am told, true or not, I couldn't say...

bottom line: Load a belted case like any other case, size it until it barely bumps the shoulder when you chamber a round, then set it back just a tad for a hunting rifle...forget about the belt....your brass will last a lot longer....

In addition,

The first belted magnums had vey slender profiles with slight shoulders that were unable to hold the cartrige in place in a sloppy chamber. The belt was an insurance thing.

Todays belted mazgnums have large, defined shoulders that do not really need a belt to headspace. Like our tailbone, the belt is a carryover from another era.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Loading for a friends 240 Wby custom made gun ...

Hey Woods, I just want to mention that "Loading for someone else" is by itself a bad idea. If the rifle's owner manages to somehow damage the firearm and is using (or has used) your ammo, you might be in legal trouble.

As a fine alternative, let me recommend you invite him over and show him how to "Load his own" using your equipment. Show him where to get the Load Data and verify it in multiple sources, how to set-up all the equipment and watch him as he makes the ammo. This way, he gets to learn something and it takes you off the hook.

If he is "too busy" or not interested in learning to reload, then it is really best for him to stick with Factory Ammo.
---

If you are trying to P-FLR the cases, you do it the same for a Belted case as you do a non-Belted case.