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Originally posted by wingnut:
Could be inconsistency in the new brass.I segregate my cases in the following manner ---

1.FULL LENGTH SIZE !!! Yes, FULL LENGTH!!!

2.Trim to length.

3.Check thickness and uniformity of case neck,
turn if necessary.

3.Chamfer inside & out. Check length again to
be sure I didn't get carried away w/the
chamfering.

4.Deburr flash hole.

5.Uniform primer pocket.

6. Sort by weight, into batches with variance of
no more than 1 grain.

You now have cases with exteriors as close as reasonably possible, and containing very close to the same volume of metal, so the interiors MUST be VERY close to uniform.

Partial neck size after first firing, don't switch cases between rifles.

Your post does not state the rifle make or model, but group size of less 1", from your first load, with any one of a new rifle, a new barrel, or a newbie loader, without a thorough break-in, is dang sure nothing to sneeze at.

Quote--" except for one of the 5 shot groups from the 45 charge group and one from the 44.5 charge group which both went into one ragged hole about 1/2 inch wide". Does the word wide here denote horizontal stringing, or just short for diamater?

If stringing, I would first suspect wind misreads, then bedding.

That said, back in 1986, I had a similar but much larger problem with a Remington 742 which was nomally very accurate,(relatively, considering the type of gun) averaging @ 1.1" - 1.2" with full power hunting loads. I suddenly began getting THREE seperate and distinct groups, of @4" each, altogether forming a triangle of @ 14". I too suspected a bad batch of powder, wind, flinching, everything. There was NO detectable movement in the base or rings.

I decided the problem had to be the cheap $%#@& Tasco scope, and took it off to send back to the factory, or use as a trotline weight, or as a tent-peg hammer. Decided to try it on another,lighter recoiling rifle first. NO PROBLEM!! Moved the Tasco back to the 742, NO PROBLEM!! It is still there, and this is still the most accurate box-stock HUNTING semi-auto I've worked with. Double check your scope mounting system.

My apologies to Tasco, where ever they might be.

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Originally posted by ricciardelli:
Your problem is more than likely that you were using new factory brass.

What you want to do now is to make the same loads over again after NECK sizing the cases (1/2 the lengthof the neck).

If that doesn't work, then I would suggest that you try BL-C From 37.2 grains to 46.0 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

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Originally posted by BECoole:
I don't think your problem is anything too exotic. Heck, if you ever looked close at that Federal brass you will swear your good groups must be a hallucination! So, forget about agonizing over brass prep, etc. Lapua is FAR superior brass to that Federal stuff. Concentrate on 3 things now that you've eliminated the scope & rifle etc.
1) Powder. Change the charge or change the type. Go up or down, I suspect up. If that doesn't help, your rifle doesn't like either Varget or the bullet. Try Varget with a 168MK to eliminate that.
2) Change the bullet. See 1.
3) Lastly, and I do mean lastly, try a different primer. That CCI seems to be a preferred Varget primer but you might want to try something else anyway. I don't think it will do much more than make a decent load better.

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I'm loading some up tonight to load the rest of teh first 100 brass that I have. I was planning on loading the 44.5, 45.0, 45.5 and finally 46.0 since the 46.0 seems to be alot of peoples prefurred accuracy load. I am working my way up to 46 and have seen zero signs of pressure. And with my long throat I doubt that it will be a problem. I am nowhere near the lands so that wont increase pressure. I did try the 168s with 4064 and shot a couple good 1/2 inch groups with those as well. But I am looking for a long range load as well so I would like to go with the 175s for the wind. But my rifle sure did like the 168s and 43.5 of 4064. I also have some Fed 210Ms that I was going to try if nothing else fixes the problem.

I sure wish I lived in another state where the local range was on my property out my back door

That would make THIS ENTIRE PROCESS MUCH FASTER lol

Thanks for the tips

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Originally posted by Cal Sibley:
You say you're using new Lapua cases. I use Lapua in 3 calibers and they are terrific, but not initially. Get out your calipers and check them for case head diameter, and overall length. They will vary from American new brass. I always full length size them the first time, trim them as well and shoot. Now they'll be uniform for neck sizing. If your problem is with the case, that might cure it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

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Originally posted by Pyrotek:
If you can shoot Federal with success then the rifle has no problem.

Maybe you can try the charge weight number in between like 43.3,43.8, 44.3, 44.8....Like lottery, the winning number doesn't have to be integers or .5's

Pyrotek

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Originally posted by Bob338:
My experience with divided groups is that it is usually NOT the load. It's always been a loose reticle in the scope or a bedding issue. What happens is that upon recoil either the reticle or the action shifts positions back and forth. It could be that your handloads were a bit hotter than the factory stuff thereby affecting one of those things. Last time it happened to me it was a loose reticle in a Leupold Vari X 3. Swapping scopes told the story and Leupold fixed it. It is not uncommon.

Same thing happens with factory bedding. You might try loosening the rear guard screw to see if the POI changes from when it's properly torqued. If it does, you have a problem. You might try torquing the action screws about 10-15 in/lbs more than they are now. Or possibly you haven't checked those? Could be the problem.

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Originally posted by Embalmer:
.. I am looking for a long range load as well so I would like to go with the 175s for the wind. But my rifle sure did like the 168s and 43.5 of 4064. I also have some Fed 210Ms that I was going to try if nothing else fixes the problem.

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