Maybe this is a noobie question or I just don't have enough experience, But do you find that the most accurate loads are near or at the max load data?
I have never experiemented with what I consider long range shooting (250 yds plus). Everything here in western NC is usually 100 to 150 yds. My 22-250 is shooting fairly well at 100 yds but opens up quite a bit at 200 yds (4 inches or more). I almost never loads rounds near the max. I usually find acceptable groups before I get to the max, however that is at 100 yds. My definition of acceptable is to cover three of the bullet holes with my thumb. Alot of the load data list "most accurate loads" at a max powder charge. I know I need more practice at the longer ranges and that is part of the problem but I consider myself a fairly good shot. Just wondering what you fellows think?

Depends on what you are going to shoot with it and what you are shooting with. Generally if you start 10% below max and work up in increments the groups will vary from small to larger and back again ( or viceversa) as they get hotter so then it depends on what the targets are. For paper or koreflute the lighter load with a small group will be OK but for game you will need the hotter load so the bullet performs as it should. Ethical hunting demands it. "As issued" milsurp rifle matches are a whole different kettle of fish.

That totally depends on the firearm and the bullet.

at http://stevespages.com/table1.html I list some of my favorite loads ("favorite" indicating tightest group at 200-yards). The tables list the minimum and maximum loads from several manuals that were current at the time I worked-up those loads. It lists my load, and the estimated velocity for that load using the data from several different manuals. I also included what QuickLoad stated would be the velocity. And, finally, the actual velocity recorded at 15 feet from the muzzle.

You will see great differences between the manuals, the software and the chrony.

Take a look...

I'm not really interested in the terminal ballistics point of view. Im not interested in squeezing out the most velocity that I can can from my rifle. I am talking strictly accuracy. It seems that all the relaoding manuals list the most accuarate loads at the upper end of the max load, whether it be my 30-06, 22-250 or 35 rem. The manuals are a guideline instead of a rule, this I know. However, in your experience, do your most accurate loads fall within near max loads or is simple expermentation with all the varibles contained within reloading?
I do chrono my loads and they are normally within the expected velocity and somtimes I am surprised how much velocity can vary from the manuals. But this dosen't mean much if I am shooting a 4 inch group at a 2 inch target.
I started reloading in the 80's to "save money so I could shoot more often." Oh I shoot more often now, but save money???? I now reload to get the ultimate group. After I get what I think is the best I can do, I move on to another powder, bullet, so on and so on. But I never done that at the longer ranges. It's a whole different game out there when shooting at 250 yds plus.

Hey stoots

I shoot a lot of Barnes TSX bullets and to answer your question, those bullets in almost every case are most accurate at or just under max. However there are nodes of accuracy at lower loadings.

For the most consistant accuracy it is best to find the loading where the POI and group size change the least over a short range of powder loadings. That way if one of the variables change then you are least likely to lose your accuracy.

You can do this with Audette's method (do a search) or with the OCW method.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edannewberry/dannewberrysop...ightloaddevelopment/

Use you own judgement on the best way to proceed safely and let us know what you find out.

Stoots: Over the decades that I have been reloading Rifles for accuary, I have found just a couple of cartridges that show a tendency to be more accurate at near maximum pressures (velocities) they are the 220 Swift and the 22-250 Remington.
I have on the other hand found a WHOLE bunch of cartridges that tend to get their best or exceptional accuracy with moderate loads. These include the 17 MachIV, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 22 Remington Bench Rest, 6mm Remington Bench Rest, 6x47 and the 243 Winchester.
Indeed my splendidly accurate 17 MachIV is only "churning" out 3,527 FPS with its "favorite" loading (25 gr. Berger bullet).
I have a splendidly accurate factory stock Rifle made by the good folks at Sako. It is a single shot bolt action in caliber 6mm PPC. It shot so very well with the first load (powder, primer and bullet) that I tried in it that "I" have never tried to pep it up and see if accuracy improved at all. No need I thought.
The BR folks DO though show a tendency to run this round near or at maximum. I think if not so much for any "increased" accuracy but as much for speed with which to diminish the effects of the wind on their group sizes.
I have heard some folks over the last 40 years profess the the diminutive 22 Hornet achieves better accuracy at or near maximum - again I don't know - I have never gotten one to shoot real well at all!
And I have tried a lot of them!
As you can see from my post I have not chased the last drop off accuracy out of my calibers that exceed 24. For my larger calibered Rifles I choose a bullet that I want to do a particular job and get it up to "good" velocities and then go Hunting with them!
I do have a Remington Model 700 Sendero in 270 Winchester caliber that shoots a pretty "peppy" load from its 26" barrel and that Rifle achieves most wonderful accuracy (Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips) with that "near max" load.
In other words I can't specifically answer your specific question! Even after 46 years of reloading for Rifles!
Two thoughts come to mind that may have as much bearing as my humble observations and I DO believe in them - #1, each Rifle is an individual (as far as accuracy is concerned!), and #2 as my good friend Steve (from out in Puget Sound Country) often says, "reloading causes questions"!
Good luck to ya.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

In most cases, I've found my most accurate loads to be under maximum. The exception is my 357 Herrett which does best at maximum or a tiny bit over.

I always try for the most accurate load. After all, if you don't hit your target, an extra 200 to 300 fps won't do you much good.

Tell us what your powder and bullets are!

I've always got best accuracy from starting or close to starting loads.From most of my experiences,the hotter I loaded the more the groups open up.This also applied in handguns too,except in magnum loads.

My own experience seems to point to the contrary and I always obtained best accuracy with a full or near full case, this being even more the case with large magnum ctgs.

My experience is much the same as Andre's. I find groups (and Extreme Spread, for what it's worth) reducing quite dramatically at a certain point as I work up my loads (mostly at charges above the midline between book minimum and book max). In some of my rifle / calibre / bullet / powder combinations, the groups suddenly start growing if I increase my charges much above that. The area between these two points is what I like to call the combination's 'pressure band', or where the combination is 'happiest'. Absolutely no basis in science, but it seems to work for me to the extent that it's predictable.

It depends on the rifle. A really good barrel will usually shoot many charges very well.

I would say on average I have had better accuracy w/ max or close to max charges in many rifles.

One thing you need to consider is that Book max doesn't mean a hill of beans. Some rifles max out before book max and some after. If you will look at 5 different manuals, you will likely get 5 different maxes.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...there are nodes of accuracy at lower loadings.

For the most consistant accuracy it is best to find the loading where the POI and group size change the least over a short range of powder loadings. That way if one of the variables change then you are least likely to lose your accuracy.

You can do this with Audette's method (do a search) or with the OCW method....

Hey stoots, After a "minor" correction to Woods post , he is absolutely correct.

Vamint guy is on the right track and I agree that with the .220 Swift, the best ones are right at the max. Don't have any idea why it's just the way it is. As was discussed before, many BR shooters are shooting very high pressure loads and not because of terminal performance. I also hate a load where the group size changes dramatically with a .2 grain change in powder charge. These will drive you crazy as you'll be changing it every time the temperature changes. I have a .220AI that shot a .5 group when I was working up loads between 45 and 47 grains of H414 mixed together. That's what I like to see. Of course it will also shoot in the .2's and .3's when you hold your mouth right and it's not too windy.

With my 22-250, I can achieve .5" to .6" groups at 100yds. At 200 yds the group opens up to 3 to 4 inches. At 300 yds it looks like I'm shooting buckshot.
I think you guys have answered my question. I don't have to to load to the max to get the best accuracy, but then again, I might.

Reloader... I know found out the book is just a guideline when I tried to follow the "manual's" bullet seating depth recomendations. That was a waste of bullets and powder.
Right now I'm loading with:

IMR 4064 34 gr 3565 fps
Sierra 55 gr blitz
100yds .4"
200yds 3.5"

H380 37.6 grs 3790 fps
Sierra Blitz King 55 gr
100 yds .55"
200 yds 4.5"

IMR 4064 36 gr 4010 fps
Hornady V-Max 40 Gr
100 yds .55"
200 yds 3"

I think I have pretty good groups at 100 yds. I could tinker with it a little and probably tighten it up some. But at 200 yds, I think the rifle is capable of better groups.
I don't won't to drag this thread on forever, but from what you have told me I just have some tinkering to do.

Thanks for all your input

stoots,

You may also want to try out AA2015 or Varget in your 22-250.

My favorite load right now is 32.5Grns of 2015 under either a 52 Amax or 55 Blitz King for alittle over 3600 and 5 shot groups less than an inch at 200 yards and bug hole 3 shot groups at 200.

W/ Varget I'm getting 3 shoters around .6-.75 at 200 w/ 52 MKHPBTs.

Good Luck

Reloader