so I'm breaking for lunch about midway throug my CA-method shoot-up.

my FIRST SHOT (with a handload, I used some cheap factory stuff to get on-paper), the case split about 55% of the way around about 3/4" up from the base of the case.

that was with 48gr of IMR4064...

I had two of that load made so I shot the second one and the case was fine, but the primer was a little "eh"... I shot the 48.5 and the 49gr loads and they seem fine...


I guess I'll keep shooting SLOWLY and see how close to 54gr I can get..

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Helmet:
so I'm breaking for lunch about midway throug my CA-method shoot-up.

my FIRST SHOT (with a handload, I used some cheap factory stuff to get on-paper), the case split about 55% of the way around about 3/4" up from the base of the case.

that was with 48gr of IMR4064...

I had two of that load made so I shot the second one and the case was fine, but the primer was a little "eh"... I shot the 48.5 and the 49gr loads and they seem fine...


I guess I'll keep shooting SLOWLY and see how close to 54gr I can get..

Well 48 grains seems to be a lot of powder for a 223 but not much for a 375.

What are you loading for?

Sounds like a classic headspace issue. How much are you sizng the cases, were they fired only in this gun, and have you by chance cast the chamber?

Can you compare a sized but unfired piece of brass to a fired piece and check the critical measurements?

Do you know how to check the fired cases for incipient separation using the paper clip method?

wow...

critical info missed... 30-06, 150gr Barnes TSX, WLR.

brass is never fired, new winchester brass... I ran them into the die far enough to make the necks round, but that's it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Sounds like a classic headspace issue. How much are you sizng the cases, were they fired only in this gun, and have you by chance cast the chamber?

Can you compare a sized but unfired piece of brass to a fired piece and check the critical measurements?

Do you know how to check the fired cases for incipient separation using the paper clip method?

I will be able to compare them to an unfired case here later tonight.

not familiar with paper-clip method.

I fired all the way up through 54gr without furner incident... I'll have the pics up momentarily.

so here's the case theat split (on the left) the other is a 25-06 case that the neck split on... my grandfather reloaded it at least 28 years ago...

Looks like headspace. I would do the paper clip test on the brass.
Butch

I knew this rifle had a good bit of headspace, but I find it odd that the STARTING load did this and the over-max didn't do anything like it...

i'll try to post pictures of the 54gr case later tonight...

if its new brass and you did not set the sholder back when you rounded out the necks.
it is a defenate head space issue
If thats the only one you had then it could be a low pressure seperation ? <but not likely>..
If you measure a new case from the base to a datum line (just ahead of the radius of the shoulder) .. you should measure a fired case and compare the diffrence that should tell you how much the brass has to stretch to fit the chamber.. a case should measure 1.9480" the chamber will measure as a refrence to about 1.9399" worhing backwards from your measurement you should have about.0081" diffrence. the two numbers are not thatcritical just take the measurement and compare the diffrences.
I hope this does not confuse the issue.
think about it.
Dave

New cases. You can probably correct the issue by Fire Forming with a Bullet Seated Into-the-Lands with normal Starting Loads found in a Manual.

Or you could "Neck-Up" the Cases and the P-FLR them for a perfect snug fit and Fire Form them like that.

Either way has a good chance of actually resolving the issue. Best of luck to you.

I wouldn't get too excited by one or a few winchester brass cracking and splitting cause that seems to be the norm in the last several batches of Win brass I have used. Out of 100 pieces of new Win brass in my 264Win mag twelve had cracks in them after loading, and a few more developed cracks after the first firing. I try to get Remington brass now when it is available. I bought some PRVI Partisan brass for my 270Win but have'nt tried it to see how it shoots but none of it cracked while loading.

By looking at the loaded cases in the red box, you might have the TSX loaded too close to the lands. TSX's have inconsistent ogives that adds to the difficulties of them being loaded long. You need to start at least .050" off the lands with .100" being even better.

How old is your can of 4064? If it is as old as the case loaded by your grandfather, it might be broken down a little. I much prefer one of the 4350's in the '06.

How does factory ammo behave in this rifle? That should answer any questions of headspace issues if factory cases look good after firing.
I would only continue to shoot handloads if factory rounds are ok. Then, we need to look at technique and/or components as a culprit. If factory rounds are not ok, get that rifle to a 'smith quick.

Could have just been a bad case in the batch, it is entirely possible to have a few bad eggs out of the box.
Could have been something as simple as a mistake with the manufacture or something a bit off in the metal its self.
I would keep a eye on the brass and look for anything out of the normal discolorations and or makings. I m sure you have done your share of shooting and should know what "looks right" and what not. Get in there and take a closer look.
One of the few reasons I do my brass prep, to check it over carefully.

The neck split in the picture reminds me of work hardened brass from repeted sizings that I`ve seen. How many loads did your grandfather run through these? The body seperation sure looks, as the other posters have said as a headspace problem if, they are new cases.

Try measuring the lenght of the fired case from base to shoulder datum with a caliper and a 3/8" or 10mm socket as a gage. I believe the datum mark on a 30-06 is at .375" but one of these sockets should be close enough for our purpose. Simply slip the socket over the neck and let it rest on the shoulder. Now with your caliper measure the lenght from the base of the case to the top of the socket. Write this figure down and repete with a new ready to load case. Subtract the new case lenght from the fired, this is your "headspace". The SAAMI tolerance on the chamber of the `06 is -0.007" from max, the cartridge tolerance is 0.01" total from plus to minus. If your measurment excedes the 0.01" you are definatly seeing the result of a headspace issue.

Personally if it is at or over the 0.007" chamber tolerance I would have a good smith measure the rifles chamber just to be safe. Keep in mind too, this is a relative measurement not the exact measurement a smith will do with proper tools. Too you could be pushing the case shoulder back too far sizing and causing headspace problems yourself. You stated these were new cases though so I doubt this has happened. The only other cause I come up with off the top of my head is improper annealing by the factory leaving the case head too hard. I tend to doubt that too, but it is possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear Kodiak:
By looking at the loaded cases in the red box, you might have the TSX loaded too close to the lands.

How old is your can of 4064?

How does factory ammo behave in this rifle?

Then, we need to look at technique and/or components as a culprit.

1) they are loaded to 3.33 COAL, which is the most the magazine will allow, and well below SAAMI COAL... those are also Hornady GMXs, not TTSXs in the box... a quick marker-check showed that I'm not in the lands with either bullet. but I did not see how far out. its an old machine-gun barrel that was turned down on a lathe, and they typically have VERY loose chambers... so don't THINK that is the problem.

2) two years, maybe 3, I bought it to reload for my 35 Whelen.

3) factory ammo is fine, and I've used lower-pressure winchester "basic" as well as some HE/HV Federal w/ TBBCs... no case issues on any of those... in the last 5 years I've put at least 100 rounds through it with no issues at all other than this one.

4) it is possible that I botched the load on this case, but I can't compare it to the second shot at 48.0gr because I jerked the shot something fierce, so who knows its "POI" at this point.

5) regarding grandpas old reloads, I think most of the stuff that survived are things he did shortly before his death in 1982 and I don't even know how/why he died (I was 3) and no one ever talks about it... so its hard to know what all was going on at that point. I was just shooting them to see how they would group... the answer was "poorly" so I'll need to destroy them all. (that was also in a 25-06, and not this 30-06)

If are useing new cases you can run a expander up the neck(30cal to 32 or 25 to 7mm) and then down size the case in your sizer to the point were the bolt will close with resistance. What you have done is formed a small shoulder on neck that holds the base of the case against the bolt face. When fired the shoulder moves forward not the base moving back that thins the
brass forward of the web. Look at the lenght of the two cases. That extra amount came from the sides of the case ahead of the web.

quote:

Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
That extra amount came from the sides of the case ahead of the web.

I appreicate the input but these are not comparable cases... the one on the right is a 25-06...

i took the picture because I wanted to document both case failures.