I was wondering if you can make .221FB cases with a FL Size die or do you really need to use a form die?
I have some new, never fired cases on hand, I'm just curios, Incase the time comes that we have to start making them!

Bob

Bob,

I read a Handloader article years ago on that. If I recall correctly, he used a .30 Mauser (likely .30 Luger would also work.) and a .256 mag die as intermediate steps. And a fair amount of Imperial die sizing wax. Start looking now and you could pick up those dies used a lot cheaper than you could buy a forming set. You'd have to anneal your cases to do that trick, but it's safe enough as long as you use a real low flame on your torch and hold the case head with bare finger. You'll drop the case way before the head gets hot enough to be harmed.

With a little head scraching you can do a lot of creative case forming with dies you already have. I form .250-3000 out of .308 using a 7-08 for the intermediate step. Use the same die to turn .30-30s into .25-35.

Back before we could buy commercial ammo for it, I made up a few hundred rounds of 9mm Largo out of surplus .223, but that trick takes a reamer.

mranch---

You really need a form die. You can fake it if you have a lathe by trimming the cases first, then shortning any 308, 30-06, 7mm mag, etc. die until the neck resizes the proper amount of the new case, then I size with a 243 full length die thats been shortened so the neck is the only thing sizing, then FL Fireball size, ream the neck, fireform with no bullet, then turn necks, etc.

(People look at me funny at gunshows for buying screwed up dies for a dollar a piece. How much are case forming dies??)

JBelk,

I have shortened many a case with drill press and a hacksaw. Poor boy's lathe I suppose. I have also whacked them off with a bandsaw a little long and trimmed to length in the drill press with on of those neat Forster collet bases bolted to the table.

Those shortened dies are a neat trick. I learned about them from a fellow who shot a slew of military rifles with a shortened set of 300 win Mag dies.

Another trick I like when making little bitty cases out of big ones is to neck turn my cases one size up before I do the final form. I just chuck the whole Forster neck turning gadget in the drill press for that one. Clamp a piece of angle iron to the table so the base can't turn. If you don't have a drill press, you can just grab the piece that turns with a drill.

Pilots are a lot cheaper than reamers.

It 's been quite a few years ago but I used to make Fireball cases in one pass out of 222...and I believe 223 cases.

What you need is an RCBS 221 File Trim die and the EXTENDED shell holder. This is a special shell holder and not just a regular RCBS #10. All of this stuff would probably cost you $15 - $20 on today's market and then you can build FB cases to your hearts content. Size them. Chop off everything that protrudes above the trim die, file and ream the neck and then reload them was all I ever did and they worked beautifully.
No neck turning involved.

If there is a more SIMPLE, STRAIGHT FORWARD way to do it, I don't know what it is.

Bob,
Use the seater with stem removed, back the die out(up)and come down a 1/2 turn(full turn)and see if that works you, trim case alittle long then full length resize, turn or ream necks done.
If you have a lathe you can make dies also, surface finish inside is not critical, (smoother is better)

Hey Guys, Thanks a bunch for all the help, lots of good info to work with!!!!

Bob

Remington is making a limited edition 700 classic in .221 Fireball for 2002. They are making new Premier Varmint ammo with a 50 gr V-max bullet as well.
I do not know if unprimed cases will be available.

Midway list Remington 221 FB cases as available for about $21 per 100. Sincliar also has them in their catalog. Seems like they are readily available from most places that carry the full line of Rem brass.

David - You probably make the best point of all. Why make the brass at all if you can buy it? I have made most of my cases for my rifles all of my life, but I did it more for fun and paranoia than from practicality.

I have never been satisfied to have 60, 80, 100 rounds of ammo for any of my guns. I consider myself naked if I don't have a minimum of 1,000 rounds...and the potential to make more. Sort of a sickness with me, I suppose. last time I counted I had over 5,000 rds of 38/357 LOADED and over 3,000 .308 LOADED and over 1,000 270 and...you get the idea.

But in the real world and with sane people, probably a couple hundred cases will suffice nicely. A guy can buy that much ready to go for about what it will cost just to tool up and make them...not to mention the time and trouble of doing so. And for many of us time gets very short and valuable. Nowadays, I just buy my brass. (OK, I admit I still buy more than I need...but that's part of the sickness.) Just don't ever come to my house and think you will wait me out until I run out of bullets.

[ 11-17-2002, 03:31: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Thanks JB.. little too much vin when I wrote this last. This is the "poor boy's lathe" approach

Make a mandrel, from 3/8 aluminum stock, about 6" long. turn the last 2" to a .223 or .224"

take a 222 or 223(222 prefered) case, run it through a 222/3 die to resize

chuck the mandrel in a press, to hold the cases, and bring it down far enough to press a 223 case to your base/vise.

use the drill press, on a VERY low speed, to turn the cases, and cut the neck with a fine file, to the correct length

file to length

rezize and inside neck ream, if required.

use commerical brass, as this will just be a nightmare with milsurp

but, it's easier to buy the 221 cases.
jeffe

[ 11-18-2002, 23:38: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

jeffeosso-----

Could you explain what you're talking about?

The 221 is NOT a short triple duece and your post is unclear about what you're doing to the case.

The problem with making Fireballs from 223 cases is the inconsistant case wall thicknesses of the longer case. By the time 223s are shortened down to 1.4 the neck is too thick and out of concentricity. That's why they should be reamed in a die that sets concentricity.

My Fireball has a .2425 neck so I must also turn the necks to fit. It's a LOT of trouble to go to but in my rifle I get just over 20 reloads and the cases are cheap and plentiful enought to sort by weight at three stages of forming (the last after fireforming) and wind up with about 40% of the formed cases being accepted. I've never gotten that many good cases from factory 221 brass.

Dont' mean to do an overkill, as I respect JB quite a bit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JBelk:
The 221 is NOT a short triple duece

---

Actually, JB, not to be argumentative, but...

the 221 fireball is based off the 222 case, and can not be formed from 308/243 cases. that's the 22br. Unless I read his question wrong, this is regarding fireball cases?


The .221 Fireball cartridge was based on a shortened .222 Remington case.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/221fireball.htm

and here's a pic from this very forum
http://www.accuratereloading.com/221rfb.html

jeffe