Where do you draw the line between regular and premium bullets?

If it has a plastic tip?

If it costs substantially more, regardless anything else?

If the lead core is bonded to the guilding metal cup?

If it is a monometal bullet?


Decades ago, Nosler Partitions were considered 'premium bullets.' Are they still?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Where do you draw the line between regular and premium bullets?


Decades ago, Nosler Partitions were considered 'premium bullets.' Are they still?

To me they are. In fact they are the bench mark for all the other "premium" bullets with the possible exception of the old Barnes' originals. JMHO roger

I believe that there are no bad bullets, only bad bullet choices.

I think that the Nsler Partition is a great bullet, and where Premium bullets start.

To ME a Premium bullet is a bullet that gives good expansion at a distance, where velocity had dropped down, yet will not come apart at close range at high velocity.

Without splitting too many hairs, I have "degrees" of premium.

To me, bullets like Speer, Sierra, and regular Hornady are "premiums" compared to a power point or corelokt, but not by much of a stretch. I believe this simply b/c they have higher standards and quality control.

I believe that the Nosler solid base is a better bullet than Speer, Sierra, or Hornady, being closest to the Hornady Interloct.

SST, Accutip, Btip are a step up yet again b/c of better BCs and quality control, despite the shady reputations.

Now, take a bullet with a plastic tip, give it a better ogive, and bond it, and you have the next step. Scirocco led the way on this, with the Accubond and Interbond following.

With the partition being old, it is still on the tier one premium list for me. For an all around bullet it is very hard to beat considering expense and accuracy and reliability. It is very difficult to find a bad thing to report when it comes to the partition.

Take a partition and bond it....now you have the Swift Aframe. Probably one of the best unsung heros of the premiums available. I've read past tests regarding this bullet compared to others and the Aframe was about as perfect a bullet as you can get.

Ditch the lead content, eliminate concentricity issues, and you have the Barnes TSX...next step, TTSX. Somewhere in the mix, the MRX should be recognized but it is way too expensive to last long unless it starts getting a major following in Africa or to die hard elk hunters, and big bear hunters.

There are many premium bullets, Northfork, Woodleigh, etc. All very excellent bullets.

My ultimate definition of premium is, will it meet or exceed my expectations for a specific application without doubt.

quote:

Where do you draw the line between regular and premium bullets?

For the most part they are bonded.

Monometals may also qualify as they don't shed their core.....and of course it's because they don't have one.

IMO Nosler partitions are NOT premium bullets as they frequently shed their front core. This of course don't mean they are not very effective game bullets.....just not IMO a premium bullet.

vapodog wrote: "IMO Nosler partitions are NOT premium bullets as they frequently shed their front core."

Hmmmmm...the most infallible thing to come out of a rifle barrel to date is NOT a premium bullet???

I'd have to politely disagree.

As to losing a portion of the front core, that's exactly what its designer intended.

partitions are made to shed the front core. noslers theory on this is that the small pieces of bullet fragments will tear up a much larger area inside the animal than the single piece will. Most of the time i find this is true, and desirable. the exceptions would be things like cape buff with the overlapping ribs. Last week i shot a moose with a 250 gr partition in a 35 wheelen imp. The shot was at a bit of an angle. The core penetrated from lung to hip, but the fragments made a mess out of the lungs & liver

When they cost twice as much. When a box of 50 premiums cost me more than a box of 100 standard grade bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
As to losing a portion of the front core, that's exactly what its designer intended.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
partitions are made to shed the front core.

I've read this claim quite often and it's one of reloadings' "urban legends"

Back when the partition was developed there was no such technlogy for bonded cores......and I can assure you that if the Nosler folks would have thought of it and come up with bonding the front core they would have.......and the Swift company would have never happened. I seriously doubt that any reloader would trade his Swift A-Frames for equal numbers of Nosler Partitions!

Mr Nosler did not intentionally plan on the front core departing.....he was unable to prevent it but it really didn't matter as the desired result was forthcoming every time.....venison in the freezer.

When one looks at bullets of all kinds posted on the forums he sees beautiful mushrooms from Hornady interlock, Sierra Gamekings, Remington corelokts and just about every other company. I have one from a Hornady SST as well! These are premium in their personal performance but since the front core is not bonded a few of these bullets shed their cores and do not penetrate as deeply as they could have. This does in fact include the Nosler partition.

Premium bullets only assure the front core stays intact and that 100% of the bullets stay together and not just 75-80% or whatever the actual case may be. Anyone shooting a standard cup and core bullet and finds it beautifully mushroomed can call it a premium bullet.....Sierra has actually run adds making this claim.... .....but as long as the core is not bonded it does not fit my definition of premium.

Speer Grand Slams are not bonded as well and several folks will tout that bullet as a premium......so my definition is not at all related to the specific performance of the bullet.....it's related to the shedding of the core and that feature alone.

I have the greatest respect for the Nosler partition bullet as far far too many folks testify annually to their effectiveness. There obviously is superb performance in that style of bullet. But to say that it is designed to shed the core is to say that when the bullet DOES NOT shed the core then it has failed? Sorry folks....we can't have it both ways......if in fact it was designed to shed the front core it would do so all the time and it does not......I'd guess a 50-50 event!

With all due respect to the above posters I disagree with the attaching the "premium" label to Nosler's partition and for the reasons stated.......not at all for it's effectiveness at putting game on the ground!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
With all due respect to the above posters I disagree with the attaching the "premium" label to Nosler's partition and for the reasons stated.......not at all for it's effectiveness at putting game on the ground!

"OK" But than again it could be that you've just been Walleye fishing to long and have a mind set that they're good to eat. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
"OK" But than again it could be that you've just been Walleye fishing to long and have a mind set that they're good to eat. roger

Darn right there.....Walleyes are good eatin stuff.....


And so are these things...


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now that's .... and

If a bullet has the reputation of doing the job it was designed for it should be classified as premium for that specific purpose.

Even a soft bullet used on varmints should be classified as a premium Varmint bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
If a bullet has the reputation of doing the job it was designed for it should be classified as premium for that specific purpose.

Even a soft bullet used on varmints should be classified as a premium Varmint bullet.

I think that about covers it nicely! roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
If a bullet has the reputation of doing the job it was designed for it should be classified as premium for that specific purpose.

Even a soft bullet used on varmints should be classified as a premium Varmint bullet.

I think that about covers it nicely! roger

Hey Roger.....those varmint nightmares are now premium bullets!!!!!

To me the definition is quite simple- Premium- any bullet which core or design has been enhanced to retain as much weight as possible. So in essence regular cup and core bullets are not premium, although this does not state that they are inferior. Many cup and core bullets perform their job very well and are accurate to boot.

Some bullets fall in-between this definition. The nosler ballistic tip is one, its jacket has been thickened at the base and lower section(big game ballistic tips) but yet it is still a cup and core bullet. This is why Nosler has come out with the Accu-bond a bonded core ballistic tip. When BT's are driven above 2,900fps they can offen experience jacket core seperation.

There is also a difference between "Premium" hunting bullets and "premium" target bullets. Berger's are often said to be great hunting bullets but thats a secondary benefit. They were designed as target bullets and excell at that. For instance, i would not feel too confident shooting a berger at an animal thats 50yds away, at high velocity(over 3,000fps).

Of course the one caveat here is that, no matter the internal design of a bullet it has to be accurate in the rifle its shot out of.

"Premium" is nothing but a marketing adjective that is used when attempting to peddle a high priced gadget bullet.

If the bullet is accurate and it's terminal ballistics are suitable it is an acceptable bullet...
Regardless of price or design.....

If you forget the individually imposed definitions, conotations and denotations found on this thread and go with Webster there are a plethora of definitions and I'm sure that the Nosler partition bullet will fit many of them. roger

My premium bullets would be Northforks, Nosler Partition (without a freaking doubt), Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Barnes X,XLC,Triple shock, Kodiak. Some of the tougher plastic tips like Nosler Accubond and X-Tips, Swift Scirrico, Nosler Solid Base. Non premium would be everything else. I have excluded forign bullets I have never shot. Remember this is my list, you may include what you want in yours. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...Premium bullets only assure the front core stays intact and that 100% of the bullets stay together and not just 75-80% or whatever the actual case may be.

...my definition is not at all related to the specific performance of the bullet.....it's related to the shedding of the core and that feature alone....

So, you are saying that 22cal and 30cal FMJs are Premium Bullets? Maybe those trash fish you are eating are "loaded" with Mercury!
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However, thinking back a bit, I can remember the results of some 50cal FMJs that performed at a Super-Duper Premium Level.

Then again were have the PERMIUM serria match kings. Super acturate kills well.

.

vapodog wrote:

quote:

But to say that it is designed to shed the core is to say that when the bullet DOES NOT shed the core then it has failed?

You are overanalyzing. No one said a Partition was designed to lose ALL of its front core.

Any time a Partiton expands, I can assure you that some of the front core will be missing. Dependent upon the impact velocity, the medium itself along with a couple other factors, the degree of expansion -- and the percentage of front core lost -- will, of course, vary.

p dog shooter wrote: "Then again were have the PERMIUM serria match kings. Super acturate kills well."

Oh no...not that road again. I am not going to post any more of my own MatchKing photos, but here is a link to one on specialty pistols that did not expand at all. It was a 135 grainer launched from a .308 WCF and was posted 9-25-08. The performance is typical of a MatchKing. So perhaps that is why Sierra is so adamant about NOT using them on game. http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7936077864/m/5671048165

I just realized one must be a member there to see the link. So here is the info posted by Rem40xb1:
"These are some bullets I tested in a 308 17" XP100. Bullets were shot into wet phone books at 300 yards first 2 bullets are Nosler accubonds 150 grain muzzle velocity was 2750 retained weight 130 and 130 grains. Next bullet is a Sierra 135 match muzzle velocity was 2825 retained weight 135 bullet tumbled after penetrating first phone book. Last bullet was a 155 AMAX muzzle velocity was 2750 retained weight 123 core seperated in 2nd phone book. Phone book s were 2.5" thick"

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
So, you are saying that 22cal and 30cal FMJs are Premium Bullets?

Well lets just say that a hellovalotta Germans and Japs and now Iraquis and Afgannis think so!

I guess Bobby if one is killing phone books it a good test. Dry or wet phone books make a huge diffearants. Too many varibles when useing paper for bullets test to be a good medium for testing. Shot lots of it in the past cut lots of bullets out of logs too. Water is the best that is the easist to get. But its not perfect. If one has the time ect Balistic gelatin is the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
vapodog wrote:

quote:

But to say that it is designed to shed the core is to say that when the bullet DOES NOT shed the core then it has failed?

You are overanalyzing. No one said a Partition was designed to lose ALL of its front core.

I'm a former Partitiion user, and must say I never lost a single animal when hit reasonably well. I did however recover several bullets and of the ones I recovered more than half of them had shed it's entire front core.

The day I discovered A-Frames I switched immediately......and so far haven't recovered a single bullet......all pass thrus!

IMO there's absolutely no way one can put Nosler's partition bullet in the same class as Northforks, TBBCs and A-Frames and I'd even add to that today the Accubonds and most of the other bonded bullets like Woodleighs!

p dog shooter:

I use a repeating medium of wet newsprint, water and air pockets. It is time-consuming to set up but gives, what I have found, to be the closest thing to flesh-and-bone performance.

Of course, nothing quite matches live flesh for assessing bullet performance.

By the way, the absolute worst medium to try and gauge an expanding bullet's performance potential is wood.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Then again were have the PERMIUM serria match kings. Super acturate kills well.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

So, you are saying that 22cal and 30cal FMJs are Premium Bullets?
[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
If you forget the individually imposed definitions, conotations and denotations found on this thread and go with Webster there are a plethora of definitions and I'm sure that the Nosler partition bullet will fit many of them. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
If a bullet has the reputation of doing the job it was designed for it should be classified as premium for that specific purpose.

Even a soft bullet used on varmints should be classified as a premium Varmint bullet.

With all due respect to the above posters may I remind them that the title of this thread is:

quote:

Strictly hunting bullets

Sierra Matchkings?????....where's that vomiting graemlin?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...With all due respect to the above posters may I remind them that the title of this thread is:

quote:

Strictly hunting bullets ...

I thought some of the Fur Hunters used to use FMJs in the old days, but that could be Full-of-Beans. Perhaps with the advent of the 17cals and extremely frangible 22cal bullets, FMJs are not used for that purpose.

I still use "mostly" good old Standard Grade Bambi Blasters(Hornady, Nosler, Rem, Win, Speer, Sierra) during the Season and they have yet to Fail. Have had to "Pass" on a few shots with Deer in the Beans because I DID NOT have Partitions in the Cartridge at the time.
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Had an Original Fred Barns 35cal Bullet "FAIL" to Kill a HUGE Buck at 15yds many years ago, because I was shaking so bad the rifle was pointed at Pine Trees instead of the Deer on the First Shot. ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL!!!

He only took two steps forward and looked straight at me, but I'd eased the Bolt through the cycle and had the Case in my off-hand when the Second Original Fred Barnes Blasted through the near shoulder and Exited the off-side shoulder. That one did not FAIL!

I suspect the First One would not have FAILED if it had hit in the same place as the Second one.
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Hey Bobby, Great flick.

Premium bullets are sold in boxes of 50, regular bullets are sold in boxes of 100.

Looks to me like "premium" bullets are matters of opinion. There are some higher dollar bullets that I wouldn't necessarily classify as premium bullets--i.e., only the price is premium.

A premium bullet is one which accomplishes its intended objective. The beauty of the currently available bullets is that there are several that can do whatever you desire, and you can determine which one or ones that may be.

There are lots of decision criteria. The relative importance of the selection criteria is up to the person pulling the trigger. In no particular order, selection criteria might be:

• minimize cost
  
• capable of sub-moa 3 shot group in my rifle
  
• minimize tracking of wounded animals
  
• minimize injury to the shooter (dangerous game)
  
• maximize probability that a good hit results in a clean kill
  
• delivers clean kill at distances I will encounter
  
• available in factory ammo
  
• will work in all the big game animals I hunt
  
• core not stripped in my rifle at my velocities
  
• maximize ballistic coefficient
  
• minimizes pelt damage

Then determine the relative importance of the criteria (10 most important and 1 the least). Select the candidate bullets, and rate how well each will match the criteria (0 to 10). Multiply the ranking by the relative importance, then add up those products. The highest score is the "premium" bullet.