Does anybody have:
[1] Information on lite loading the 30-06 with jacketed bullets? [I have been told ther can be a problem.]
[2] Is that a webb sight for lite/squib loads?

After much experimenting, I have settled on a Speer 125g TNT and 20 some grains of IMR 4227, no filler. Good, light load in my '06 anyway.

MADISON

If the loads are very light the only problem you will have is that the headspace will increase with each shot.

What happens is that the primer blast forces a rimless case into the chamber a bit further but the very low pressure load does not fireform it.

Mike

You might want to check out the Speer manual, they feature reduced loads for quite a few rifle cartridges.
My fave for .30-06 - 110 Speer Varminter (the HP that looks like a pistol bullet), 17.0 grains SR 4759, Federal 210 primers, Federal cases. Guesstimated velocity is about 1,700 fps - great for short range varmints/plinking. Very easy on the shoulder.

I have a few:
14g. Unique, any bullet.
13g. Red Dot, any bullet.
31g. IMR 4198, 150g.-180g.
42g. IMR 4895, 125g.-150g.

Hey MADISON, Go to the Hodgdon web site and look at their Reduced Load information based around H4895. All the Reduced Loads listed on their site have been thoroughly tested and will pose no Pressure problems for you.

Hodgdon determined it is possible to use a 60% Reduced load of H4895(from the MAX Loads shown) with any bullet. But, their explaination will be in greater detail and much better than mine.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
If the loads are very light the only problem you will have is that the headspace will increase with each shot...What happens is that the primer blast forces a rimless case into the chamber a bit further but the very low pressure load does not fireform it...

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Hey Mike, I'm having a hard time understanding how the "Primer blast forces the rimless case into the chamber a bit further"?

Could you perhaps mean the "impact strength" of the Firing Pin Spring has the potential to force a rimless case into the chamber a bit further?

I don't understand how pressure generated "inside the case" by the Primer and reduced Load can create the conditions you mention.

Hot Core

I think the primer tries to "back out" on detonation. There would also be intitially more pressure within the primer pocket area than the case

But whatever, you get a case and keep firing with only a primer and then try the same with primers that have been killed off.

Jack Belk is a 35 Whelen man and thought I was bullshiting about the increasing headspace and then he went and tested.....presto another believer. This came up on a thread on belted cases and put forward my view that I preffered belted and because I use lots of very reduced loads.

I have never tried it but I would be interested to see how rimless cases with very sharp shoulders would go such as the 416 Rigby.

Mike

Thank you for all the information you have posted, SO FAR. Can you help me with a couple of definitions?
I have been told that with larger calibers to use only FLAT NOSE bullets. None of the catalogs list those. The list ROUND NOSE, only. Help, please.

For light loads go to my pages ance check them out...too many to list. Either of the SR powders are great for light loads, as are some of the "pistol powder" loads I have listed.

As for "flat nose bullets only" in larger calibers...balderdash!

Try some of the Speer #13 loads with XMP-5744 -- a truly great powder for light loads, it works beautifully in my .30-06, .338 Win. Mag. and .375 H&H. Better than SR-4759 in the ones where I've tried both.

When ,Mike says headspace,I think he means the case will shorten,and it will.

Hot Core

To be completely honest I had never thought too much about the "whys" except it was the primer and I guess the firing pin as a plus.

As far as I have always been concerned the case was driven forward (like being resized ) but unlike a higher pressure round there is insufficient pressure to fireform the case back again. I have used both neck and full length sized. You might ask "why full size" and that is just simply a case of reloading at the range or in the field and mixing full loads with reduced and sometimes in two rifles of the same calibre.

I think if I was using very reduced loads for rimless brass that was expensive or hard to get brass, then after a couple of shots I would expand the neck up and then run the case through a full lenghth sizing die and then use those cases for the next round of full power or at least loads that mid range pressure.

Paul H has 350 Rigby and is a squib load shooter and he said the sharp shoulder on the 350 Rigby seemed to be OK in terms of increasing headspace.

I used Belk as a reference of someone who was a non believer and then tried for himself and since he often finds me to be an offensive creature, then to publicy post it was the case then I figure is brass was increasing headspace by at least inch or so with each reload and firing of primed case.

I think someone above mentioned drilling out the flash hole to solve the problem. I have never tried that and also I would prefer to let it happen for a couple of shots then expand the neck and full size.

As a by the way, because I tend mostly to being a multi rifle in the one calibre person (not hard to guess calibre if it was not for this issue then I might just have elected the 35 Whelen over the 375. It would also make me always pick a 35 Whelen over a 9.3 x 62 because of the cheap 30/06 brass.

Mike

[ 06-11-2003, 02:19: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Hot Core

I don't think there was anyone who fought as hard as I did on HuntAmerica against the Belk/Barber case. Swamp banned me many times due to my views. The number of posts and threads were enormous.

Ray Atkinson and Chic Worthing (CustomStox) were full backers of Swamp and Jack Belk. In fact I think Atkinson was one of the people who got the ball rolling at HA in favour of the Barbers.

You are right to remind me of what happened and why it still needs to be addressed as the Belk thing is everywhere.

A thread I started a year or two ago on this site. Perhaps it is time to ask what people think about the Remington/Barber issue, at the very least in principle.

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002044;p=1

I just posted on African forum:

http://www.serveroptions.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007405

Mike

[ 06-12-2003, 17:31: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Hey Mike, Just looked at the thread.

Two things stand out as surprises to me; 1. Your "close and personal buddy"(the fool) has sure PT Barnumed a bunch many many folks into thinking there is an actual design problem with the Remington Trigger. 2. Apparently a lot of folks that "used to" hang around Swamp's site no longer go there.

As far as #1 goes, it always amazes me to see otherwise rational, clear thinking individuals be so completely taken in by someone who is clearly taking a totally wrong and illogical position simply because it lines his pockets.

And #2 caught me off-guard too. I thought all those folks LOVED Swamp's site!!! HAHAHA

I told Swamp to stick his site a good time back. He sent me an email saying I had "threatened" howl. Still unsure how he came to that conclusion. howl had been talking bad about the dead PO Ackly, as usual for him, and I did take the old idiot to task for doing it. Many folks have no idea at all his Doctorate is in "Religion" and he leads them to believe it has something to do with ballistics - pitiful character.

In fact, I pile belk and howl under the same rock.

Good luck with the thread. I saw only "one" negative response from someone you obviously stomped on before.

Hot Core,

If you search on Google for Belk Remington Barber you bring up the CBS stuff as the first couple of links.

I always like this one from Jack:

Belk: "That’s the two rules of gun design. No gun should fire with the safety engaged and no gun should fire unless the trigger is pulled. My contention is, if you don’t know when a gun is going off, there’s no such thing as safe. Right now, I could hold a 700 and take the safety off, and if it fired, people within five miles of here are at danger even if it’s pointed up, or down."

5 miles I assume by pointing down he means it will ricoshet 5 miles

Mike

Hey Mike, One "Rule of Thumb" I've found to be true is if a "fool"(belk) talks long enough, his lack of mental ability becomes completely clear to most everyone.

The Lyman cast bullet reloading manual gives a great number of loads for Cast bullets; which relates a great deal for low velocity Jacketed bullet loads. The other reloading manual with reduced loads is the Accurate manual ( for XMP-5744 ). The two powders that have the highest safety factors are IMR-SR4759 and Accurate XMP-5744. Both are excellent for reduced loads. Jacketed bullets of the same weight and bearing surface will yield higher pressures than lead. At lower velocities( below 1,850 fps ) in a 30-06, pressures will be well below max with either of the two powders mentioned. Another trick is to moly coat the bullets; they seem to shoot better; for me at least.

[ 06-16-2003, 06:25: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]