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Hi, I’m new here and relatively new to reloading. I’m just starting in on .308 Win. I’ve got a Remington 700 LTR TWS with a 20†barrel and a 1:12 twist (I think), and I’m trying to find a powder that measures well, and has the best consistency (I have heard good things about the ball type powders for consistency in my RL550B). With Hornady’s 165gr Match BTHP I’m getting 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 100 meters with occasional outliers, and I know it can do better. Right now I’m looking for two loads, one for accuracy using the 165gr BTHP the other a sub-sonic using something heavier. Any advice? RLTW! | ||
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In my Dillons I find that any of the extruded powders don't work worth a crap. Hodgon's BL(c)-2 works well as does Win 760 and Varget. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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>> Fjold Posted 10 June 2008 09:19 >>In my Dillons I find that any of the extruded powders don't work worth a crap. By that, you mean they don't meter well by weight?? That doesn't necessarily mean they won't group. Why is that most benchresters will go to untold lengths on every variable yet still throw their charges, and they aren't using predominantly ball powders. Might tell you something.. Chris, NZ | |||
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The max book load for H335 168 gr is 42 gr for .308 The max practical for long brass life is 49 gr. | |||
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Try 44-46grs of WW-748 with 165-168gr bullets. WW-748 meters like water and I've shot 1/2 MOA or better groups with that load in at least a half dozen different 308's.....................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Chris, I mean that the Dillon powder measures don't meter the extruded powders worth a crap. The BR shooters up here use a lot better measures than Dillon makes. I'm not saying that Dillon's equipment isn't good, I have a 450B that has loaded tens of thousands of pistol and rifle rounds and a newer 550 also and within their limitations they are very good machines. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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tnekkcc, I think you have a digit wrong there! I think that you mean 39 grains. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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No, my notes say:
I find that although the primer falling out, or the primer insertion being too easy is the end of the brass, it is not reliably repeatedly measured directly. However, the extractor groove expansion is reliable, repeatable, and a good indicator for primer pocket looseness. I like to do 5 or more firings in a row of the same case, where I can handload and shoot at the same time. When I find the real threshold of max pressure, then I back off a safety margin. In 1956 Vernon Speer wrote that 6% was a good figure for that margin. e.g. if 49.5 gr were the threshold, then 46.5 would be the load to use. But that is probably not the case, as Sierra shows 44.2 gr, and that old book is usually close to the 6% mark. | |||
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That has to be the worst example of load work-up I have ever seen. This guy is new to reloading the 308. Lets make sure he lives to reload a long time. Pick the two powders that meet your critera: WW746 and Varget Start loads at 5% (minimum) below the maximum loads listed in at least two books or from two manufacturer's sources on the net. load a minimum of five round of each in steps that are .5 grains apart. Then go to the range and fire each powder on a different target. Find the loads that hit closest to each other. (this means you have to know which shot hits where) When you find the charge range of the two that are the closest for each powder then you load new rounds with .1 grain difference in charge weight and fire them the same way as the last time. Find the three rounds that hit the closest together and right in the middle will be your most accurate loads. Work with those loads until you find your most accurate load. Your accuracy will be below the max loading and your cases will last longer. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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If you think that "Speer 12" "Speer 13", and/or "Speer 14" have good load data, I am not surprised that you dislike my raw data. From my point of view the Speer data was capriciously and erroneously processed into recipes in the last 3 Speer load books. But I'm glad YOU liked it. "How to write a mediocre load book" second revision | |||
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tnekkcc, do you consider a steady diet of 73,000 psi loads as safe? The 308 Win is rated to 60,190 psi and the proof load is 75,237 psi. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, The short answer is no. The 1889 Mauser case head design, when built with a large Boxer primer and shot in a strong rifle is good for 62kpsi sustained. That would include 22-250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 [US brass], 270, 7mm-08, 7x57mm, 280, 308, 30-06, 8x57mm, 338F, 358, and 35W. If you want to load hot, do 72kpsi sustained on the .223 that is registered at 55,000 psi. There is some wasted safety margin to exploit. The 308 does not have much to exploit. It may look like it, based on bogus load books that give high velocities with wimpy loads, but 62kpsi is about as much you can use and have guaranteed tight primer pockets. The 6mmBR and 6.5x47 brass have small primer pockets, that combined with a bushed firing pin will allow those 100 year old guns to go past the 72kpsi sustained pressure. Those cartridges are not even registered at any pressure. That is becuase your firing pin may vary. I recently converted a 1917 Sav99 take down from 250S to 6mmBR. I am running it at the limit of the CCI450 magnum small rifle primer piercing, and getting 0.3 moa. That is pressure that 308 brass can only dream about. | |||
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This will defiantly make my next few weekends a blast, thank you. I think I’ve got plenty of good ideas for powder that will meter in my 550B as well. After I get my accuracy load I’ll be back to ask about the sub-sonic load. One other question though. It seems like a lot of people are borderline obsessesed with getting the maximum (safe or unsafe) velocity out of their loads? I don’t understand the appeal or function. If it’s to hunt large game or long range, it seems to me that what you would gain in velocity and power, you would loose in accuracy (and actually hitting what you wanted to)? RLTW! | |||
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As stated, the 550 measure works great with ball powders and not so well on stick powders. I have had good results, however, w/4895 in my 550's. I suspect it would also handle Varget and 4831SC, but have not tried them. The secret with 4895 is slow down a bit and be very careful to cycle press smoothly. Have loaded thousands of rounds of 30-06 match grade ammo on the 550 using 4895 as I never found a load w/ball powder quite as accurate. 748 is an excellent choice for your .308. Regards, hm 2 Chronicles 7:14: If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. | |||
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OK, I must have misunderstood your previous post. I thought that you were saying that the practical limit of the 308 for adequate case life was 49 grains of H335 at 73K psi Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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 A man's got to know his limitations | |||
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I have tried Varget in three different .308's and ALL showed exceptional accuracy with Sierra 168gr. match bullets. | |||
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Loading to 72K "sustained" pressure is nothing but STUPID. You'll think you are safe until you have a gun or two blow up from cumulative metal fatigue. Even worse is trying to convince new relaoders to emulate your idiotic reloading techniques. Compare the maximum loads of a few different modern reloading manuals and don't exceed what the majority says is safe..................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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