How many times have we seen these statements in discussions? The next thing you see is trashing the rifle maker or the bullet maker or brass maker and on and on.

Some people just don't shoot very well and blame it on everything else. A good example happened to me recently when a friend asked me to glass bed his rifle to help it shoot better since he knew I was good at glassing and he was afraid to mess with it. I did the work and loaded a few rounds and a week later zeroed it and it was shooting really nice tight groups.
My friend came to visit me a couple weeks later and we went to the range to shoot. After a few rounds he was complaining about his group so I took a look at his target and it did not look good so I watched. He shot a few more rounds and I noticed he had the swivel stud sitting in the rest so we corrected that. He then was leaning into the shot lifting one leg of the rest off the bench.
I asked if I could shoot a couple rounds for him and he quickly gave me the seat.
I fired two shots that touched each other about a 1/2" above the aim point. Nothing wrong with the rifle and it probably was okay before I bedded it.
He was only a couple inches off and would not have missed a deer but he just did not want to believe that he was the problem and not the rifle.

Just like hacker golfers buying every new club that comes along and they still can't shoot low scores. Just a little skill issue.

My point is that more often than not the equipment manufacturer basher need only look in the mirror to find the problem.

You are probably right most of the time, but sometimes there are problems with mechanical apperatus. I have had troubles with rifles and scopes in the past and was so aggrevated about the lack of accuracy, at least temporarily, in the heat of the situation if someone would have pointed the finger at me and said "man, you just can't shoot is all", I would have felt like putting a knuckle knot on the side of their head. I am not quick to blame it all on operator error. I have also had lack of accuracy due to elevated blood pressure as I forgot my medication, but I knew there was a problem when the target had two bullseys instead of just one.

I can't believe you posted this.


Every shooter on this board can hit golfballs at 300yds with a Ruger MK III and remington gold ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamp_Fox:
I can't believe you posted this.


Every shooter on this board can hit golfballs at 300yds with a Ruger MK III and remington gold ammo.

Iron sights! And a head-wind! Don't fergit the head-wind!




But at the range yesterday -- One bench and six shooters. (We're out in the "woods" here!)

Kimber .300 short mag. and the guy was setting the rig in the rest any ol' place, holding the forestock into the rest and "wrestling" with elevation on the rear bag by runing it along the butt-stock. Sling swivels in the way of all this.

Another shooter setting the rifle on the rest and no rear bag at all. But we gotta note here, he had a Smith Mod. 625 in 45 ACP, 6" bbl. and was DEADLY even in double action.

I need to find a range where I can "work" without interference. Not too serious about this outing, but I want to sit at one bench, w/ one rifle, and shoot at my targets w/o trading the set up off with other shooters.

I know what you mean. I am a member of a great range now and it is a pleasure shooting there. We even have an FFL and all of our loading supplies are available to members wholesale. We can buy all of our firearms wholesale and the membership is on $100 a year. I sure will miss it if I ever have to move.

quote:

Originally posted by Luckyducker:
You are probably right most of the time, but sometimes there are problems with mechanical apperatus. I have had troubles with rifles and scopes in the past and was so aggrevated about the lack of accuracy, at least temporarily, in the heat of the situation if someone would have pointed the finger at me and said "man, you just can't shoot is all", I would have felt like putting a knuckle knot on the side of their head. I am not quick to blame it all on operator error. I have also had lack of accuracy due to elevated blood pressure as I forgot my medication, but I knew there was a problem when the target had two bullseys instead of just one.

Dennis,
We all can have a bad day it may just be too much coffee but you get my point I think.

I have a hunting buddy? who is something of a practical joker. He was watching a once a year hunter next to him trying to get his just bought rifle sighted in just prior to the opening of deer season on a 100 yard range. His rifle wasn't even on the paper, so my buddy aims his at the target and puts one about six inches high. The guy then looked at the hole, adjusted his scope and shot the next shot, my friend? then laid one in there about 6 in. low and 6 inches right. This went on for about 5 more shots before the guy headed back with his rifle to the gun shop as he was convinced his new scope was junk! I guess this was his idea of amusement, but this poor guy was totally bummed out.

That's terrible.

That was mean trick. I had a guy next to me one day last year trying sight in and at 50yds with a new on and couldn't get anywhere close. I did not mess with but gave a good tip that instantly turned things in his favor. Most of you guys probably know this one. I told him to pull the bolt and set the rest so he could see the target through the bore. Adjust the scope til the crosshair hits where the bore is aimed. He was amazed at how easy that was.
He was ready to toss the scope before I showed him that little trick.

LOL...

My favorite so far was the guy shooting the Rem 700 bolt action in 300 RUM with Weaver see-thru bases, rings, and a nice Tasco scope.

Shooting at a turkey target at 30-yards.

Hits the paper 1 time out of 6 shots -- Right on the turkey's chest. "Better give it some elevation".... Cranks it 2-clicks (yep, 1/4 MOA per click ~ 1/6" at the target)

Shoots 2-more times. Hits his the paper again, about 1" left of the head, and the target stand once -- about 4" below the paper... *CLANG*

Proclaims happily "Yep, hit 'er dead center. Them other ones -- I think I was pullin 'em..... That right there'll kill a deer"

I'm thinking "I am in more danger than the deer"

I decide if I see his truck near the woods, I won't hunt that day.

Best regards

John

Back around 1980 I bought a used rem 760 in 06 and when I tried to sight it in I was getting groups of about 5". I tried all different loads and could not get it to group.Got to checking the slide and it was rubbing the barrel on one side putting pressure at different points. Took a dowell rod and sandpaper and fixed it. It gets m o deer now. I checked with rem recently and the rifle was almost new when I got it.

Rad

I believe most inaccuracy is in the neighborhood of 50% bedding and ammo related. Fix the bedding and find the right load and half of the complaints disappear.

30% of them are shooter related. Fix the shooter and that's solved.

Then about 15% is of poor expectations. We have a few folks that actually believe all guns shoot 1/2" groups and are unhappy with 1.25" groups.

The last 5% is catchall and there's no hope for them.

For these reasons I never have a problem with a used gun.

A guy the other day asked for a new barrel for his Interarms 30-06 as he said the current barrel had 6,000 rounds thru it and was burned out. I looked in the barrel and it was dark and filthy.

After removing the barrel and installing a new one in 280 Rem I cleaned the old barrel and it looked like new!!!! There wasn't a single trace of burn ahead of the throat!!!

a buddy i shoot with is the classic bad shot... and our gun club is small enough that we normally have the range to ourselves....concrete benches, covered firing line, 4 targets at 50, 2 at 100, 2 at 200...even new fans to keep the mosquitos away...anyway, todd is into 45 long colt and 45-70's... plus cheap military stuff... like the $99 swiss... milsurp ammo...whatever cheap 45 colt stuff thats on sale....i'm trying to get him to use 1 brand, 1 load, instead of just whattever's on sale....we shoot 4-5 long guns each time we go out, plus 3-4 pistols....he doesn't like my 458 win mag, the 375 h&h, and he sure won't like my new 416 rem...i enjoy shooting his 45-70 sharps, and he's a more meticulous gun cleaner than i am....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I believe most inaccuracy is in the neighborhood of 50% bedding and ammo related. Fix the bedding and find the right load and half of the complaints disappear.

30% of them are shooter related. Fix the shooter and that's solved.

Then about 15% is of poor expectations. We have a few folks that actually believe all guns shoot 1/2" groups and are unhappy with 1.25" groups.

The last 5% is catchall and there's no hope for them.

For these reasons I never have a problem with a used gun.

A guy the other day asked for a new barrel for his Interarms 30-06 as he said the current barrel had 6,000 rounds thru it and was burned out. I looked in the barrel and it was dark and filthy.

After removing the barrel and installing a new one in 280 Rem I cleaned the old barrel and it looked like new!!!! There wasn't a single trace of burn ahead of the throat!!!

I like your percentages and you are probably right on the money. I also like about every post that I read of yours elsewhere.

If you had a factory varmint barrel that shot 3 gr over max before any pressure sign showed up what would you speculate as to the characteristics that allow that?

A buddy and I were shooting at 100 yards about 30 years ago and an obviously wealthy sort showed up to sight in his rifle for an elk hunting trip. He asked us to stop while he walked to the 200 yard berm and put up a target. He returned, fired a single shot from his .264 Win Mag, and then walked back to check his target. He did this two more times. I asked my buddy to put a round from his .270 into the guy's target after the 4th trip. The .264 guy fired another round, and again walked to the 200 yard target. This time he was there a while. He came back loaded his rifle in the car, slammed the trunk lid, and spun his tires in the dirt leaving.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwight:
That was mean trick. I had a guy next to me one day last year trying sight in and at 50yds with a new on and couldn't get anywhere close. I did not mess with but gave a good tip that instantly turned things in his favor. Most of you guys probably know this one. I told him to pull the bolt and set the rest so he could see the target through the bore. Adjust the scope til the crosshair hits where the bore is aimed. He was amazed at how easy that was.
He was ready to toss the scope before I showed him that little trick.

called bore-sighting isnt it? i normally do it @ home at about 10yards or so. i tried it at 50 but i think its easier @ 10.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
A buddy and I were shooting at 100 yards about 30 years ago and an obviously wealthy sort showed up to sight in his rifle for an elk hunting trip. He asked us to stop while he walked to the 200 yard berm and put up a target. He returned, fired a single shot from his .264 Win Mag, and then walked back to check his target. He did this two more times. I asked my buddy to put a round from his .270 into the guy's target after the 4th trip. The .264 guy fired another round, and again walked to the 200 yard target. This time he was there a while. He came back loaded his rifle in the car, slammed the trunk lid, and spun his tires in the dirt leaving.

haha thats pure genius!

poor guy probably thought his bullets were splitting in 2

quote:

Originally posted by Dwight:

I like your percentages and you are probably right on the money. I also like about every post that I read of yours elsewhere.

Thank you.....I appreciate the kind words

quote:

If you had a factory varmint barrel that shot 3 gr over max before any pressure sign showed up what would you speculate as to the characteristics that allow that?

I'd say that it's not at all unusual but what was the pressure signs? If sticky extraction is it then it's probably because you can shoot to 75,000 psi with no pressure signs in many guns.

Are the primer pockets loose upon reloading the casees the next time?

When I have loaded to 3 gr over all I get is a little primer crater and extraction is easy. Never a tight bolt and never had a loose primer pocket or any other problem. My old friend that is a smith said he think the chamber was just cut with a new reamer and lapped good. He advised not letting anyone work on it till it stops shooting straight. Maybe I have just a tad more room. I don't know but it sure shoots nice.

I can not hit a golf ball everytime at 300yards with Remington Gold ammo, but white box winchesters are a different story. LMFAO

I had a guy ask me to help him sight in a Raging Hornet with a scope on it. He was cranking away on the turrets at 25yards. I was working a load up, no one else on the range he asked if he could move to 10 yards. Off hand he is cranking those turrets. I said get a big piece of paper and try 50 yards. Could not understand how moa adjustments work on a scope and how he was eating up his adjustments for no gain. I also told him he needed to get a group anywhere on the planet before he should move them. Hell what do I know. He shot about 40 rounds was not on paper. He asked if I would shoot it. MISTAKE #2, I should not have talked to him in the first place. I fired, blow back off the cylinder rised about a 100 dots of blood on the back of my hand. I hit dead center on one of his tragets hanging about 18inches away from the one I was shooting. He then procededs to tell me that he is 2 yes TWO full grains over max in this Hornet. He says I never go by the book they are just a guide. OMFG. My wife was pulling in with the kids so they could shoot after school, about this time. I saw his hand looked like hamburger. He says I got some ammo to burn up here if your kids what to shoot it. FN I packed up and left, pissed off kids and all.

I totally agree with companies getting a bad wrap sometimes. I get a few deals tha way.I refuse to reload for anyone because of that. I do not have a problems helping any one anytime but sometimes stupidity of so called seasoned vets is incredible.