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I have many questions about using QuickLoad but don't want to wear out my welcome on the first post, so I'll just ask one.  My case's have a water capacity of 99.56 grains (300 wby) after being fired with a full load. If I use that figure in QL, the velocities are way off. I ended up having to use 106.7 grains to get the output in QL to match the speeds clocked thru the 35p. Is this the best way to adjust QL to match actual chronograph results? Thanks, Kevin | ||
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Quickload tends to be optimistic. You could enter the exact barrel dimensions and cross sectional area. That will likely drop velocities 10 - 15 fps. The "start" pressure is another variable to play with. My preference is to enter the values honestly and accept any velocity/pressure discrepancies as a limitation of Quickload. Quickload does not take into account the bullet friction, or the gas leaking past the bullet, or how well the powder burns, or your rifle's freebore and throat diameter. It is just a computerized guess. | |||
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What Popeman says is true. Other things QC can't take into considration is the fact that lot to lot variation of 3-5% in powder will affect pressure/velocity. ALSO--quickload has a hard time with the weatherby calibers. It can't take into consideration the freebore in a weatherby rifle. BUT, it might be pretty close on a remington chambered in 300 wby w/o freebore. I usually make my adjustments by playing with seating depth. Pretending to seat the bullet longer or shorter to reduce case capacity. You probably can't get that much adjustment on the weatherby though. I would have to say in general...qc has the most touble with weatherby and freebore...also has a little trouble with long "straight wall" cases like 45-70. | |||
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Thanks for your reply's, I'm new to quickload and can use all the help/advice I can get. I did notice that the values for my 6-284 were almost an exact match with the field results. This weatherby has a lot of freebore and I didn't notice any place to adjust for that. Quickload velocities were 3300 fps while the actual (35p) was 3164 fps with 85.3 grains of imr 7828/180 gr hornady's. One of the reasons I was wanting to adjust for the actual results has to do with lot to lot (or changing mfg's) variations on case capacities. I get 96.59 gr with remington cases and 104.014 grains with norma cases. I'd like to be able to match obt's or velocities between the two cases without doing complete ladder/owc test. Kevin | |||
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Kevin, you can edit the case capacity in Quickload to any value you want. This way the powder charge, OAL, etc is the same as the real load. If you search under my user name, steve505, i posted results of using quickload for OBT in a 505 Gibbs rifle. rgds, steve | |||
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Steve505, I played with the case capacity until the powder charge I loaded calculated a muzzle velocity that matched my reading with a 35p. I didn't know if that would give a reasonably close calculation for mv when doing "what-if's". I am going to use obt's to see if accuracy improves but will have to rely on the powder charge (and verify with mv) using QL. Just wanted to see if I was on the right track. This 300 wby has proven to be more work that it's worth as far as finding an accurate load that will repeat. thanks, Kevin | |||
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If I may ask something....Does Q/L take primer brand (magnum/non magnum etc.) into consideration? If so how do you do this? I just got it and I can not figure this out. | |||
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POP, I'm new to QL as well, but I remember reading QuickLOAD Review and Users Guide on page 6 that primer date can be saved as additional load info but it's not taken into consideration in the calculations. Hopefully someone with a lot more QL knowledge will chime in. | |||
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That being the situation, you might want to take a look at Chronographs and Pressure which you will find quite interesting. | |||
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Excellent link, much appreciated. Does help keep things in perspective to say the least. | |||
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Hey Kevin, You are welcome and Welcome Aboard AR. Always glad to see a new poster. Your being leary of the results from QL or any of our other Reloading Processes is a good thing. Helps keep things in perspective. I've seen a few folks speak very highly about QL and a few also mention there are some particular aspects of it that leave a lot to be desired. I don't have it, so I'm only relating second hand info there. I do have Load From A Disk which is apparently not quite as powerful, but I also take it's compilations with a grain or two of salt. --- I think the Oehler is about as good as it gets, but from Karl's article, you can see easily how that just because you get a specific Velocity, it is really not a good idea to deduce it has any correlation with Pressure. Best of luck to you on the Loads. | |||
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The kicker, as mentioned, is in the free bore. Quickload assumes the bullet hits the rifling shortly after departing the case. In my modeling, I find that if you just add the amound of freebore to the case capacity, you end up pretty close to the observed values. HTH, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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Thanks, I was glad to find this board. Last board I participated on was "shooters talk" several years ago.
I agree, look like I picked a bad caliber to learn QL on. That, and the fact this rifle has proven to be a real challenge.
I agree completely, the Oehler is my favorite "toy". I just started back reloading after taking a break for a few years and the printer wouldn't feed. I called Oehler to find out about repairs and was told to send it in. When I ask about the cost, they replied "It's on us". Even after I stated it was nearly 10 years, they still insisted on making the repair at o cost to me.
Dutch, did you ever play around with the starting pressure to allow for freebore? Just a thought. Thanks to all, Kevin | |||
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I have, and it just did not seem to be the way to do it. What I often do is decrease the seating dept in the model to the point where the bullet would be kissing the lands. Even though in real life, the bullet is seated much deeper. This seems to match the outcomes much better. HTH, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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Just for grins I drilled and tapped one of my cases and checked the throat depth. Using a 180 gr flat base hornady, the bullet is actually clearing the case by about 0.125 before hitting the lands.  I'm not sure just how much freebore it had when new (I bought it used about 20 years ago (mark 5)) but I'm thinking a rebarrel might be in the near future. | |||
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I have a 223 Savage like that. I actually bought a new barrel for it. I still have it, on the shelf. The old one is still shooting five shot groups in the .7's, and keeps on trucking. Hard to argue with results..... The "loading close to the lands" myth is HIGHLY over-rated. JMO, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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Hey Kevin, I agree with Dutch that you do not always need to be out near the Lands to get a good group. It seems there are some rifles that shoot just fine with a lot of freebore. One of mine has Loads that are fairly close to the Lands with one Bullet and will shoot in the 6s when my concentration is up. And it also has a short Bullet that shoots just fine with 0.268" Freebore. It would be outside the case if it was close to the Lands, similar to your rifle. --- If you do choose to rebarrel, you have the choice about how much Freebore to have in the rifle. I personally like a bit more Freebore in Wby Cartridges, because it allows a person to get a bit more Velocity at less Pressure. Or, you can have it cut with a bit less Freebore. If that is what you eventually choose to do, you might want to have that "Stamped or Etched" on the barrel. | |||
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I've always wanted to blame the excess freebore for the lack of accuracy in this rifle, it's good to know that others are having good luck with long throats. I guess I'll have to find something else to blame those 1.25 moa groups on. Surley it's not my bench techniques or my loading habits/skils My next test will be full length sizing with a FL die set to move the shoulder back about 4 thou. Up to now, I've been using a body die to set the shoulder no more than 1 thou and neck sizing about three fourths of the neck. Other than that, I'm about out of ideas. Thanks, Kevin | |||
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Hey Kevin, When you think about the actual size of the Game we typically Hunt(not Varmints), and visualize a 1.25" circle low on the shoulder, there is still a whole lot of critter around that spot. I like small groups as well as anyone, but the reality of the situation is that a rifle capable of 1.25" groups will kill a l-o-n-g way out yonder. This might be of some help to you: Partial-Full Length Resizing (P-FLR) 1. Custom fits a Case to a specific Chamber. 2. It has a slight "crush fit" to eliminate all Headspace. 3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the Chamber are forced to be in perfect alignment. The Case is held in Tension between the Bolt Face and Chamber Shoulder, regardless of the Ejector type. 4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it is about the thickness of a Nickel above the Shell Holder on a raised Ram. You Lube and Resize a Case, remove the Lube and try it in the Chamber. Lower the FL Die 1/8th turn or so and repeat the process. You might reach a point where you CAN NOT close the Bolt or where it is very difficult to close. Screw the FL Die in 1/16th turn and repeat until the Bolt closes with "snug" resistance. If you go too far, back the FL Die up 1/8th turn and try again on a different Case. 5. You have the longest possible Case Life due to Zero Headspace. 6. Accuracy is generally fine to excellent. 7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set. 8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles and some single shots. 9. You must Lube the cases and then remove it. 10. You may need to Fine Tune the FL Die adjustment the first couple of Reloads. --- I was just flipping through Hodgdon #26 and noticed they mentioned 85gr of IMR-7828 gave them 3200fps in their 26" test barrel and you had mentioned getting: That is very close and speaks well for your rifle. I know a lot of folks have excellent performance and fine accuracy with IMR-7828, but it has NEVER been the most accurate Powder in any rifle I've ever had. If you have not tried Hodgdon's H1000 in your 300Wby, you might want to try a jug of it. It might not create the same Velocity as the IMR-7828, but it would be close. And I would also recommend Benchmarking the rifle with some Sierra MatchKings or Nosler Ballistic Tips. I do that simply to see what the rifle is actually capable of accuracy wise, before I move on to the Hunting Bullets. You could also do a full Case Prep on 200-500 "new" cases and then Weight Sort them into small similar Lots. Even doing it with your current Cases "might" help, but I would also Anneal the Case Necks to get them as consistent as possible. Varying Neck Tension can have an effect on the Burn Rate which would widen the Standard Deviation and potentially open groups. --- If those 180gr Hornadys have a Cannelure, you might want to experiment with putting a Roll Crimp into the Top of the Cannelure. On the Cartridges that I do crimp, I back the Seating Stem way up and do the Crimping as a separate step in the process. If the Bullet does not have a cannelure, then I do not Crimp it. I see folks mention doing it with the "Lee Factory Crimp Dies" who claim it does well for them. But, I suspect they could get better accuracy if they just went to Partial-Full Length Resizing. --- If you did not use the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method to develop your original Loads, I can also recommend it. --- Anyway, there is nothing at all wrong with 1.25" groups. The real test is to see how it will do with Cumulative 1-shot groups on the same Target from a cold clean barrel. And if you don't get to shoot it very much, that could cause the groups to open as much as anything else. Best of luck to you. | |||
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I just want to say Thanks for taking the time to post your comments, all are appreciated. | |||
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Hey Kevin, I've not tried the Ramshot Powder. Some of the other folks probably have though. You might want to start a Thread on it or do a Search on it. I've lived in a couple of places where I had a Range right out the back door. It sure does spoil a person to have such a fine luxury. Best of luck to you. | |||
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