Now for a .458 Win Mag reloading question. I have the
L.E.Wilson case trimmer. You use one of two case holders
available, depending on whether you are only NECK sizing
or FULL LENGTH resizing.

Is this product really beneficial: Larry Willis Die
Does anyone ever just do NECK resizing on the .458 Win Mag?

The .458 is really nothing more than a long .45-70 headspacing on the belt rather than the rim. If you are loading lower pressure loads you probably can "neck size" quite a few times before you need to FL size. Much will depend on your die dimensions versus your chamber diameter.

IMO the special die posted is a solution to a problem which doesn't exist. I have loaded for belted cases for decades and have not had a problem with excessive case body expansion ahead of the belt. I suppose that if you had some very soft cases, or loaded to very high pressures, or had an undersized chamber there might be a need for it.


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Yeah, just useless stuff someone is trying to make money on, selling to unsuspecting people; not that there is anything wrong with that. I have never had the phenomenon he describes and I didn't start loading belts yesterday.
Neck sizing a straight walled case? sure; if your brass will still fit into the chamber, go for it. But it is not for the same reason you might neck size on a bottlenecked belted case; you might do that to establish a shoulder on which to headspace instead of the belt. On a straight wall, you can't do that. Still, I do it all the time.

If I owned every piece of loading equipment the various manufacturers and gun magazine said I needed. I wouldn't have room in my basement to reload.

If it isn't broken don't fix it.

The Willis tool does work, but the situations where it is needed are very rare. I went a few decades without needing one, but did have several cases where I used a gutted small base .300 Win die as a body die on other Magnum cases. Usually those were examples of cases fired in "generous" chambers that couldn't be sized down to fit in a different rifle, but some were from reduced base reamers that cut chambers so small that standard dies didn't have enough squeeze. The Willis tool would have worked in those situations. For the most part, you don't need one and will probably never need one.

I appreciate all the information men. Thank you.

I like the Willis die!!!!

I also use the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I also did some trail and error with the RCBS expansion die. I basically run it all the way in and let the first "step up" in the flare go in just a enough to get a small flare. That has worked best for me.

The two loads I settled on are:

Hornady brass, CCI #250 primers, 3.34 COL, Northfork 450 gr bullets, SS and FPS, 72 gr of Accurate 2230 gives me 2,225 fps on both.

I'm still working on a load for some Hornady 500 gr RNSN (the old Interlock design) for hogs. I got 2,150 fps no problem, but am thinking about stepping down to 1,800-1,900.

I've had the infamous Willis die for several years and have never had occasion to use it. I guess I was a sucker.

I don`t think you can neck size only on straight wall belted cases.I think you might get by without needing to FL size and neck expand(depending on the size of your chamber) but that is it.

THEORETICALLY, but not always in practice, a "straight" walled case has case specific taper that has a range of amounts...IT'S A TAPERED TUBE...and will start sizing the WHOLE length of the case, ALMOST at the same time, but because chambers don't always match dies, this doesn't usually happen in a linear sense.

If you noticed while sizing ANY TUBULAR CASE, the sizing doesn't start until the case is up into the die, and usually starts sizing the NECK area first, SO, basically you DO neck size before you body size.

I "tune" my dies by polishing them out and once I have my sizer die polished out for minimum squeezing, that sizing doesn't start until the case is almost all the way up into the die, usually leaving about 1/2" of actual squishing.

Each of my belted mag calibers, just as all of my other sizer dies, has it's own sizer and sizes down the neck ID area to ~0.003" less than bullet OD. I use taper or Lee crimpers and usually only crimp magazine rounds.

CH4D will make you a sizer die to any dimension/configuration you wan, including a bushing neck sizer die...it just depend on how "custom" you want to go. Shooters have been using standard sizer's since when, with excellent results so it is almost a moot question, but some of us like thing s bit finer, SO...

The belts on various/cases can run from ~0.215 to 0.222" wide, where SAAMI is 0.220"...and a sizer has a range of measurements just like non-belted dies. Get the combo running the wrong way and you can wear out a case very quickly.

I made a gauge out of scrap 1" OD alum round stock x ~3" long, drilled/bored out to just fit over the base above the belt of a case...it works for all my belted mag calibers...squared on both ends and long enough for the longest belted mag case I have....I drop a case into the gauge, slid it under my dial indicator, zero it out then measure from the top of the extended case to the top of the gauge. The resulting numbers I posted above were the result of those measurements. It didn't take long to make, and I can measure 100 cases very quickly. I headspace on the shoulder for bottlenecked belted mags.

All you need to do if that "bump" is causing you trouble is to measure the belts, use only the ones that fall within the same width range, then grind a few thou off the bottom of the die so the die sizes down enough to remove that bump and so the reloaded case fits the chamber without any binding. I haven't had that kind of problem with any of my belted mags, but get the tolerances going the wrong way with the chamber job and sizer and "stuff" happens.

I don't see anything wrong with the Willis Collet sizer any more than with the Lee Collet sizer's...but there are much cheaper ways to achieve the same thing with your standard sizer die.

For the most part, I think, hunters just don't bother to "save" belted mage cases, either by picking them up or by "tuning" the sizer. I have belted mag cases that were reloaded 10 times that are still going strong, but I use new or once fired cases for the hairy stuff and keep the other for sage rats.

I've been a "tool user" all my life, using then to feed my family so I LIKE TOOLS/TOYS. I HAVE A COUPLE OF DRAWERS FULL TO "STUFF" I've bought over the years that I only use occasionally and some of the items end up being used for other purposes or as a basis for other tools ...just like SPICE...money has to flow through the system to keep it economically sound, which means some of the money I "wasted" on toys went to feed someone's family and keep the system sound...all you need to do is look at todays "EBAYWAY". If you whine about not having "things" and use EBAY then YOU are part of the cause of the failing economy... whether you know it or not.

Luck

I also have a rifle with " a generous chamber". I was getting head separation after 2-3 loading. With this die I now get 7-8 loadings with the same load. It works if you need it.

quote:

Originally posted by moved2ski:
I also have a rifle with " a generous chamber". I was getting head separation after 2-3 loading. With this die I now get 7-8 loadings with the same load. It works if you need it.

So if I have a certain problem there is a solution. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Now for a .458 Win Mag reloading question. .....

Does anyone ever just do NECK resizing on the .458 Win Mag?

Nope - I only FL resize.
Few buddy I know that reload for the 458W also FL resize, too.

Regarding using home casted bullets in my .458
WM, MV in the 1500 FPS vicinity and lower, down
to about 1200 FPS, bullet weight to be 405 grains,
DO I NEED A LYMAN "M" DIE? What else do I need
to order to load these cast bullets and shoot them?

The Lyman M die has a tapered plug inside it for belling the case mouth to accept the lead bullets. It works well and Redding has some of the same expander dies. Might want to put a little crimp on it after seating.

As to the Willis die I too have it in the cabinet. And I think it works. I haven't had a situation where I needed it yet but when brass was so hard to acquire it made sense to have it if I needed it to get more brass life.

For the big bores I just FL resize. And for another thing it seems my Model 70s prefer new and FL sized brass anyway. That didn't stop me from trying other tools and techniques. I have the neck sizers in the sets and I have a couple of sets of bushing dies too. As it seems my rifles like that FL die I seem to use them the most. But I have the others if I need them.

Thnx Tex.

Back to the original post for a minute. The LE Wilson case holders are for new cases and for fired cases. The sizing method, while it is associated, is less dependent.

In many cases either holder will work. In many sizes Wilson shows the same case holder for both fired and new cases such as 270 and 30-06 family.

In the Magnum family, and being that I had several belted magnums I bought both case holders when I purchased the trimmer. And I have used both too. Sometimes it just depends on the brass and the chamber and the die etc.

I disagree with many of the posts above that say the Belted Magnum Die is a waste of time and money.

I have loaded extensively for the .458 WM and when pushing it's maximum capability...case bulge above the belt is a REAL problem that I have only been able to overcome with the "belted magnum die".

If you are going to shoot/load for a .458 WM, which MUST headspace off the belt (sets it apart from necked cases), the Bleted Magnum Die is well worth the money on savings in buying brass.

I will be loading DOWN all the time. Velocity
in the mid teens, bullet weight 300-425 grains.