Friends-

I need some guidance regarding handloading .45 ACP rounds for a Webley Mark VI.

From a little research, it would appear that Lead bullets that are .452 in diameter are preferred given the Webley is actually a .455? Or, there are lead bullets that are .455 for Colt SAA's; what is the preferred route?

Also, it appears that a light load would be in keeping with the Webley's pressure signature.

Any information would be helpful, especially information regarding bullet selection and powder selection, as well.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

MY brother and I did a bit of loading for his Webley 45 conversion Low end 45 loads with a cast bullet is what we settled on top of the load scale are too much for the Webley.

As I guess that someone else did the damage years ago there is no point in sayig leave it "as is" in 455 Webley.

So here goes...

The weak point on any Webley is the top strap and it is that which will bend first before the cylinder gives way.

Fast powders and bullets with long bearing surfaces are usually the best way to bend a Webley top strap.

So the best way NOT to bend it are slower powders with bullets with minimal bearing surface or hollow base bullets that swage down easily.

Most Mark VI Webley revolvers were throated on the cylinder at .450" and bored in the barrel at something larger.

It is only Lyman with their riduculous .457" diametre "recipe" for .455 Webley that cause all this problem in the USA.

Here in Briatin most would size SOLID BASE bullets for the 455 WEbley WHEN USED IN A WEBLEY REVOLVER to .450", .451" or .452" but at the larger .454" for use in Smith & Wesson made Hand Ejector II or Triplelock revolvers.

So my advice is to size at a maximum of .452" and use a bullet (unless hollow base) with a short bearing surface. And being hollow base that diametre is good to go in WEbley, Colt or Smith & Wesson .455 revolvers.

It was in fact me who gave the drawings to RCBS for the excellent job they did on making a 455 Webley 265 grain HBRN mould and, in fact, I'd use that sized to .452" at maximum in 45 ACP cases in your Webley.

The length of the 45 ACP case being, in fact, the exact same as the old Mark I 455 Webley revolver cartridge form blackpowder days.

And, as the Mark VI was designed to accept ALL 455 revolver ammunition from Mark I through to Mark VI it will easily take a round using 45 ACP cases loaded with RCBS's 265 grain 455 Webly HBRN that I supplied them with the drawings of.

It will also spare the risk of then using loads made for 45 ACP with the same bullet being accidentaly used in your Webley.

Just remember nothing faster in powder than Unique or similar burning rate powder. Definitely avoid Bullseye or HP-38! And yes, sized to .452" is best!

Factory diameter of Britsh made 455 lead bullet ammunition was NEVER .455" but at most .452" and most usually .450" diameter. Which is why the cylinders are bored to that.

The clinnder throsts on the Webley are smaller than the groove diameter of the barel. I suspect it was done to get better
burning of the cordite powder. The case isn't thick enough to allow a heavy crimp. Anything coming out of the cylinder has to
sulg up to fill the barrel groves. Some people report good results with soft (swaged ?) bullets. The proper bullet is a
265 gr hollow base bullet. These are available and the pistol will shoot to the point of aim
Some of my results. 265 gr 51/2 gr of Unique 684 fps., My Unique is the older type and burns dirty so I tried P38.
4.8gr P38 740 fps . This is a high end load and the pistol shoots high. 41/2 gr P38 692 fps shoots pretty much to the point of aim.
Thers are neat old guns enjoy them and pass them on.

quote:

The proper bullet is a
265 gr hollow base bullet.

Everyone-

Thank you for your comments. Where does one find the 265 gr hollow bullets that you mention?

There are several sourcse. Mine came several
years ago from buffolo bullets.
Go to "Gunboards" then "British Gun Pub".
Several experts from all over the globe,some
have written books on Webley.

RCBS make the mould, is 455-265-HBRN or some such combination of letters and numbers. A special order item.

I guess there will be commercial US casters that also cast bullets from that mould?

Fiocchi also list, as a separate component for reloading, their swaged version of that 265 grain bullet.

I did quite a bit of reloading, shooting and hunting, with my 4" barreled .455 Webley MK VI 20 odd years ago.

Using Unique powder I loaded quite a range of jacketed bullets and also my own 250gr cast bullet. I was able to get bullets to shoot to centre with the standard fixed sights, enough to take rabbits, hare and opposum at closer range and goats plus the odd deer head shots at 15 - 20 yards. I made cases from 45 Colt brass trimming to length and thinning the rim to fit the Webley cylinder.

In terms of pressure I thought the .455 Webley quite happily handled factory 45 Auto ammo using the half moon clips made for this purpose?

When reloading I had no data to start with other than the 45 Rimmed data and worked up to the proper POI while ensuring break open and ejection of the cases from the cylinder as the Webley does was smooth and effortless.

Photo below of .455 Webley reloads:
185gr Winchester FMJ, 250gr Hornady HP and 250gr Lyman cast. The Speer 200gr HP "flying ashtray" bullet accounted for quite a few rabbits.




This maybe of some interest:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sport...uction-608755782.htm

$5 ACP loads are like firing proof charges.
Sooner or later somthing will let go. I have
read that the top strap stretches, others say
the cylinder lets go. Parts are not available
use your own judgement.

eagle27-

I sent you a PM.

Thanks,

Mark

I re-read my first post. There was an error. It is the STIRRUP tha fails, bending first (or more accurately stretching) then shearing with over pressure loads.

Tired Webleys show first signs of this if you close the revolver but can feel freeplay in the stirrup area if you grasp grip and barel in separate hands as if trying to open the revolver but with the stirrip left in the closed position.

Extreme overloads will also, of course, blow the cylinder.

From memory, but I may be wrong, working pressure for 455 Webley in British proof was 6.5 tons psi and 45 ACP 9.5 tons psi.

However you can check it by searching CIP Proof I am sure. Remember British Army revolvers and their cartridges were in theory and practice fully backward and forward interchangeable.

That is that a 450 or 476 cartridge would chamber and fire in a 455 revolver and a 450 or 455 cartridge woul chamber and fire in a 476 revolver.

The reason? British officers purchased, privately, their siderams and so the newer 455 ammunition had to be backward compatible with those 476 revolvers still in use with the original (officer) purchaser or, often, the newly commissioned officer son of that original officer using his father's revolver passed on to him.

Such as Lord Cottesloe, who I knew, who in WWI carried his late father's 476 revolver. This practice being widespread in the British Army in that period.

The ONLY exception being 450 which, whilst it can be chambered and fired in the othets (you see some Webleys actually marked 450/455/476) will not accept 455 or 476 in its own chambers.

So ALL British 455 ammunition was loaded to pressures deemed safe if used in the earlier 476 revolvers that were made for the blackpowder 476 cartridge.

quote:

RCBS make the mould, is 455-265-HBRN or some such combination of letters and numbers. A special order item.

I guess there will be commercial US casters that also cast bullets from that mould?

Fiocchi also list, as a separate component for reloading, their swaged version of that 265 grain bullet.

enfieldspares-

Thanks for the information. Do you or someone else participating in this thread have a picture of the bullet made from the RCBS mold that they could post?

Thanks in advance.

An earlier poster mentioned the cylinder throats were much smaller diameter than bores. At .450". He is right on.
Also the bore diameter is closer to .452". But you need to slug both the bore and each throat.
The throats can be opened by a good machinist/gunsmith. This will allow you to use 452 cast bullets (or sized to whatever your bore slugs to).
The name 455 Webley is like the 38 special. neither name is an actual bore diameter but a marketing name. As in 455 sounds/sells better than 452. And 38 sounds better than 357 until you add "magnum" to it.
As to shooting commercial 45ACP loads in an old Webley. First you should know that the Webley's proof load is the same pressure as the "factory standard" 45 ACP load pressure.
Feeding any firearm a steady diet of proof loads is a sure recipe for wrecking your gun, and possibly you.
I would use softer cast bullets and keep the velocity between 650 and 700 fps. Should produce reasonable performance without stressing a fine old gun.
If you want to hunt bear get an appropriate gun.

muck

I did slug my the bore of my 4" barreled Webley Mk VI and found it to be .454". The Lyman mould I used for cast bullets was # 454190 with as cast run through my 450 lube/sizer at .454. Recovered bullets showed perfect engraving of the rifling and shot accurately as did other jacketed .454" bullets from various manufacturers.

I never used 45ACP cartridges in my Webley as I had no need to, easy to make cases from 45 colt brass and plenty of jacketed or cast projectiles available. Now Fiocchi make 455 Webley ammo so generally readily available without having to resort to 45ACP.

When talking of pressures, remember the British have always been very conservative, mainly due to the use of cordite which was not forgiving of high tenmpertures such as found in the African colonies where the 303 British and 455 Webley were often found. The British had quite low 'factory' pressures for the cartridges they loaded in the Mauser 98s where as we know these rifles are perfectly serviceable operating at pressure levels with the best of the modern firearm actions produced in the past and today.

The Webley revolver is a heavily built and strong sidearm and is recognised as being able to handle heavy loads. According to my early edition of COTW, the majority of .455 Webleys brought into the USA after the WW2 were converted to the 45ACP cartridge using the half moon clips.

Of course I cannot verify how accurate this assertion is. Some posters here are saying that a steady diet of 45ACP will ruin the Webley, which maybe too true, so there must be a lot of buggered Webleys if this is true?

Here is a link to the Midway website with the RCBS bullet mould:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Produ...und-nose-hollow-base

I also saw this on another Forum, the thread dates from 2007 so don't know if the contact referred to, in North America, still operates:

quote:

I to am an RCBS man but the 455 Webley dies are special order from them and cost $75 US when I got them. I understand Lee carries them all the time. I get my bullet 265 gr RNHP (RCBS mold) form OMA bullets at 604-299-6335 in Burnaby. Al at OMA got the RCBS mold and has been making bullets for me. Soft or hard lead ones work great in my MK 1 455 Webley.