I have heard before that they are the same thing. Are they really? I mean to the degree that you could mix the two together and feel comfortable useing it?

quote:

I mean to the degree that you could mix the two together and feel comfortable useing it?

yes.....and I've done it!

It's funny I had heard that before but dismissed it. I just looked up a few loads and most of (but not all) the loads that had one, isted the other also.

H414 was 1/2 to 1 grain heavier in every loading that both wrere listed.

I still don't think I would mix them though. I might stop buying one or the other however!

quote:

H414 was 1/2 to 1 grain heavier in every loading that both wrere listed.

If you go to Hodgdon's website www.hodgdon.com and check loads using H-414 you will see that loads also listed with Win 760 are identical in every respect to the H-414 data..including the pressure!

I was told directly by an employee of Hodgon's a couple years ago that they were identical as well....

At one time, I have not checked recently, you could pull the material safety data sheets online. They were the same.

By memory both are made by St. Marks Powder Company. Contract work.

I have heard that all Winchester powders are just Hodgdon powders packaged in different cans and given different numbers. I have seen a cross-reference of Winchester numbers to Hodgdon numbers, I wish I had saved it.

i've come to learn the same as mickincolo.

Yep same thing excluding lot to lot varience's of both, as always work up with a new lot number of either. That is why I prefer 8 pounders of powder.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I have heard that all Winchester powders are just Hodgdon powders packaged in different cans and given different numbers. I have seen a cross-reference of Winchester numbers to Hodgdon numbers, I wish I had saved it.

That's not quite right. Hodgdon does not make and has never made any powders (except to the extent that they now own the IMR line which is mostly made in Canada at a plant which they may now also own). Hodgdon powders have variously come from IMI of Scotland, ADM of Austrailia, and the St. Marks, Florida plant originally owned by Olin, the parent company of Winchester Ammunition at one time. Their surplus powders of yesteryear were mostly from DuPont plants.

The St. Marks plant is a "ball" powder plant. It manufactured most if not all of Winchester's proprietary line of powders, as well as many powders sold by Hodgdon. It also manufactured tons of powder used by military ammunition plants and military contractors. For example, WC-844 is the same spec powder as Hodgdon H-335. And WC-846 is identical spec to Hodgdon BL-C2 and Winchester's WW-748. I do not know of a military equivalent, but as has been mentioned, H-414 and WW-760 are the same spec powder. They will vary from one another to the same degree as different lots of the same powder will. Other "twins" are HS-6 (WW-540), and HS-7 (WW-571). However, there is not a "twin" Winchester powder for every Hodgdon, nor a twin Hodgdon powder for every Winchester. Some of them are unique to their own proprietary lines.

Incidentally, Hodgdon is now the distributor for Winchester powders. If anyone cared (and we had a functioning Justice Department), Hodgdon would probably have some antitrust issues to deal with. Considering the price of powder today, I'd say there is ample evidence that the market is a thin one.

Nowadays the Accurate powder company has gotten into the surplus/overrun/proprietary powder business in a rather substantial way and some of their powders are also St. Marks-produced and are twins to some other branded powders.

H-110 and W296 are the same powders.

Thanks guys, looks like I am going to mix what I have together to make one lot.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I have heard that all Winchester powders are just Hodgdon powders packaged in different cans and given different numbers. I have seen a cross-reference of Winchester numbers to Hodgdon numbers, I wish I had saved it.

Here's a link to the ADI site with powder equivalents.
http://www.adi-limited.com/han...uide/equivalents.asp

WHOA, I mean,WHOA!

That ADI chart is labeled "equivalents", but it is actually a relative burning rate chart. SOME of the powders listed on it are identical, while MOST of the others are simply the same APPROXIMATE burning rate. DO NOT attempt to substitute one powder for another according to this chart because their burning characteristics vary with the size of the case, volume of bore, and chamber pressure.

There is nothing on this chart to indicate which powder are identical to one another. DO NOT depend on it!

Besides that, there are several discrepancies where a slower powder is listed on a line above a faster powder.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
WHOA, I mean,WHOA!

That ADI chart is labeled "equivalents", but it is actually a relative burning rate chart. SOME of the powders listed on it are identical, while MOST of the others are simply the same APPROXIMATE burning rate. DO NOT attempt to substitute one powder for another according to this chart because their burning characteristics vary with the size of the case, volume of bore, and chamber pressure.

There is nothing on this chart to indicate which powder are identical to one another. DO NOT depend on it!

Besides that, there are several discrepancies where a slower powder is listed on a line above a faster powder.

Yup...I saw that too.....I'm happy to see someone step up and post it.....thanks!

ADI Powder Equivalents chart is interesting.

WW 760, H 414, and IMR 4350 are all equivalent.



I may be wrong but I would think that one of these 3 powders would have a different burn characteristic.

Its best to accept that in your photot equivalent means similar burning rate. Looking at your pic though it is not a huge leap of faith to see that 760 & 414 are truly equivalent.
Steve

You won't find more accurate info than what Stonecreek and SR4759 provided.

H414 and WW760 are not just equivalent, but THE SAME with different names and numbers. Mix to your heart's content.