If you are one of us who has used shitty Chi-com type calibers from Horrible Freight or Home Despot, then you may want to keep your batteries full when measurements are critical.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDype-j3hk

Well duh. I don't guess any of them work well with a dead battery. That's why, when things are truly critical, you don't use a battery driven device.

Beware of calipers with batteries.....

I for one like the big digital display thats easy to read with chronologically gifted eyesight. I also have spare batteries.
(and they don't make braille analog vernier calipers)

Some of you guys would bitch if they hung you with a new rope.

Profound wisdom: "Some of you guys would bitch if they hung you with a new rope."

Dial calipers may be old fashioned, but they don't need batteries, and are always "on".. unless you drop them.

I hate things that need batteries when there are non-battery alternatives. After every hunting trip I have half-used batteries hanging around that create confusion next time and then have to be disposed of to not cause heavy-metal pollution.

Unless you want to use your calipers as micrometers, aren't the old ones good enough?

Starrett dial calipers,perhaps the industry standard. Not cheap,last a lifetime, no need to wonder how accurate they are. When was the last time you heard cheap and precision in the same sentence?

My old Mitutoyo vernier calipers work just fine.

The cheap Chinese electronic calipers from Harbor Frightened Tools, etc., are a huge bargain for reloading applications. I buy a couple when on sale at ten bucks or so and use one until it goes awry (usually several years), then toss it and start using the one that is NIB. Works out to about $2 a year "rent".

Normal reloading ain't precision machining and "close enough" really is close enough for measuring case length, hole spacings, telling a .308" bullet from a .311" bullet, and figuring out whether you've got a plastic bottle full of #8 or #71/2 shot. No need for a delicate, multi-hundred dollar instrument for this kind of work. A twin pack of button cell batteries will keep one going for twice as long as the factory warranty on a new car, so what's the beef?

quote:

Unless you want to use your calipers as micrometers, aren't the old ones good enough?

Those extra digits mean absolutely nothing. The limitation of calipers is in their design. It doesn't make any difference if the reading you get is from a vernier, dial or digital display.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

quote:

Unless you want to use your calipers as micrometers, aren't the old ones good enough?

Those extra digits mean absolutely nothing. The limitation of calipers is in their design. It doesn't make any difference if the reading you get is from a vernier, dial or digital display.

The extra didgits do mean a lot when you get older and have chronologically gifted eyesight.

I stopped using my dial Mitutoyo for that very reason. Meaning the "BIG" digital numbers are very easy to see. And even the cheap digital vernier calipers are accurate to .0005 (half a thousandths)

I just wished my hearing aids used the same batteries.

CR2032 3V Micro Lithium Coin Lithium Cell Battery 2032. Genuine KEYKO ® - 5 pcs Pack $4.75
https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

All this bitching for not thinking ahead and only $4.75

P.S. For Sale new high quality hemp rope, perfect for making excellent hangman's knots. (batteries not included)

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The cheap Chinese electronic calipers from Harbor Frightened Tools, etc., are a huge bargain for reloading applications. I buy a couple when on sale at ten bucks or so and use one until it goes awry (usually several years), then toss it and start using the one that is NIB. Works out to about $2 a year "rent".

Normal reloading ain't precision machining and "close enough" really is close enough for measuring case length, hole spacings, telling a .308" bullet from a .311" bullet, and figuring out whether you've got a plastic bottle full of #8 or #71/2 shot. No need for a delicate, multi-hundred dollar instrument for this kind of work. A twin pack of button cell batteries will keep one going for twice as long as the factory warranty on a new car, so what's the beef?

Absolutely correct. I reloaded for years using the little white plastic Hornady calipers.

My good Mitutoyo digital calipers broke the screen when one of the kids friends dropped them. Replaced with a cheap better brand Chinese pair and they are fine. I always remove the button battery when not in use and have never replaced the battery in probably the five years I have had them. I always turn them on 15- 30 minutes before use as all electronics should be to allow the components to come up to operating temperature and stabilise. This is pretty standard practice for measuring equipment. Obviously the better branded equipment using higher quality components probably stabilise quicker. Similarly I disconnect the battery in my Chronograph when it is not in use and turn it on a good 15 minutes before use. The 9V battery lasts a long time and the readings have always been good from the little Chrony.

Oh what a hard bunch.. I do find it amusing when a caliper reading on paper with ragged holes is claimed to four decimal points.

OK go ahead and take your car battery out, your hearing aid batteries out and your pace maker battery out.

Now take the battery out of your cell phone and try calling 911 and tell them your having a heart attack.

P.S. When I'm not reloading I have battery powered RC helicopters to chase my cats.

quote:

Originally posted by bigrdp51:
OK go ahead and take your car battery out, your hearing aid batteries out and your pace maker battery out.

Now take the battery out of your cell phone and try calling 911 and tell them your having a heart attack.

P.S. When I'm not reloading I have battery powered RC helicopters to chase my cats.

F.A. Skippy!

quote:

I stopped using my dial Mitutoyo for that very reason. Meaning the "BIG" digital numbers are very easy to see. And even the cheap digital vernier calipers are accurate to .0005 (half a thousandths)

Sorry but that is not correct. It's like having a 200mph speedometer on a Prius, the extra digits are out there but they are meaningless.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Sorry but that is not correct. It's like having a 200mph speedometer on a Prius, the extra digits are out there but they are meaningless.

Horse pucky

Below a Colt 5.56 Field gauge



Below the same field gauge in my calibrated Hornady gauge.



Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.co...e-your-rifle-reloads

One of the first rules of handloading is to always follow the approved reload data. The cautious reloader gradually works up to approved maximum loads to ensure his particular gun does not show pressure signs. Generally this is visual observation of the fired shell case head and primer. There is another slick way to check for pressure signs if you are interested.

Using a blade micrometer that measures in ten thousandths (.0001"), new, unfired cases can be gauged before and after firing to determine reasonably accurate maximum loads. Micrometers measuring in thousandths (.001") are insufficiently accurate to perform these measurements Using a blade micrometer that measures in ten thousandths (.0001"), new, unfired cases can be gauged before and after firing to determine reasonably accurate maximum loads. Micrometers measuring in thousandths (.001") are insufficiently accurate to perform these measurements, and should not be used. Previously fired cases cannot be used accurately due to various levels of brass hardening. Measurement is taken just ahead of the extractor groove on the case head and must be taken at the same place on the case before and after firing. By placing a small mark on the case head – entering the cartridge in the chamber with mark at 12 o’clock – a consistently accurate measurement can be taken with each firing.

Lower pressure rounds, like the .30-30 Winchester, usually yield maximum pressures at .0003"-.0004" expansion. Modern cartridges, like the .223 Remington, will show maximum pressure at .0004"-.0005", while .308 Winchester, .270 Winchester, etc., typically yield .0005"-.0006" expansion at max pressure. Magnums, like the .300 Winchester Magnum, show maximums at .0006”-.0007” expansion, and should be measured on the belt.

Plan ahead.



I bought the vernier calipers below in 1973 for $48.00. And they are calibrated to .001 (one thousandths) of an inch.

I'm 67 and I bought the digital vernier calipers because it has "BIG" numbers. (They don't make standard calipers with a braille readout)



P.S. I use rechargeable batteries in my flashlights and keep charged spares close by. This way you won't step in horse pucky at night. (or in a reloading forum)

Case Head Expansion for reasonably accurate determination of maximum pressure loads? You've got to be kidding me!

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:
Case Head Expansion for reasonably accurate determination of maximum pressure loads? You've got to be kidding me!

You could use a $900.00 Pressure Trace and your lap top computer at the range.

"BUT" if the battery goes dead in either one we will see another posting with someone bitching about battery powered equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by bigrdp51:
OK go ahead and take your car battery out, your hearing aid batteries out and your pace maker battery out.

Now take the battery out of your cell phone and try calling 911 and tell them your having a heart attack.

P.S. When I'm not reloading I have battery powered RC helicopters to chase my cats.

Perhaps you should have read my post a bit better although probably too busy chasing cats with your little helicopter

I did not propose taking the battery out of anything other than I find that my batteries do last longer when taking them out of calipers and my chronograph when not in use (you do not usually have to have instant start up when measuring anything). I contended that allowing electronics to warm up for some time before use will give better results. Many manufacturers recommend this.

Pardon me for getting off into the weeds but...
The National Bureau of Standards accuracy specs for Dial calipers are +or- .0015" the accuracy specs for digital calipers are +or- .001". That means you have a window or .003" on a dial caliper or .002" on a digital. The reason is not that you can't make a rack better than .003 or a digital scale better than .002, it is because the mechanical design of a caliper does not lend itself to repeatable measurement any closer than that.
If you are trying to measure anything closer than .001" you need a micrometer.

Blacktailer hit it Accurately AND Precisely

Batteries are not all equal, digital devices are not all equal...people's ability to measure are not all equal.

AND NO ONE READS THE FINE PRINT that come with your digital toys...if so everyone would know and understand the digital limitations AND the limitations of mechanical measuring devices...not to put too fine a point on it or get anyone's nickers in a twist...

I've read TOO many posts concerning digital weight scales and other measuring devices and the problems encountered that actually fell within the purview of the directions that OBVIOUSLY WERE'NT read or understood.

I have many various EXPENSIVE measuring devices that I DON'T want worn out measuring bullet lengths, case dimensions, non-relative/precision chamber specs, loaded cartridges, fired cases, etc., so I use the cheepchit tools that can be easily compared with a standard to keep the perspective accurate AND precise and tossed and save those high dollar tools for when I need to actually measure a tenth.

By the way...measuring out to 4 decimal places accurately AND precise is WAY beyond the average Reloaders ability...just breathing on your mic can change the reading by a few tenths, not holding the mic correctly, not having the ability to "feel" the correct drag, not cleaning the faces BEFORE taking the measurement, can change the reading and two individuals measuring techniques can produce varying numbers...and squeezing the jaws of a digital caliper as illustrated for the 5.56...NO DISS INTENDED, USED AS AN OBSERVATION FOR LEARNING PURPOSES!!!!

And, YEAH...I need those big dials also, some of my OLDER Starrett's dial lines are so fine I need a magnifying glass to even see the needle, much less separate the needle and lines.

This question boils down to mis-interpretation, dis-information and mis-understanding for the most part, starting with the digital device and ending with mis-knowledge and measurement application..

It is also a very good teaching device for those that want to actually understand the facts of Metrology, the Science of Weights and Measures...whether you want to use that knowledge or blow it off.

As mentioned already , nothing in this sport EXCEPT maybe for highly accurate, long range, highly sophisticated weaponry need 4 decimal place accuracy and precision(checkout the definitions of BOTH OF THOSE TERMS AS RELATED TO METROLOGY)...NOR, because of the malleability of the components can a very accurate, repeatable measurement be taken. I've been doing Metrology for a long time and, at my present age, no longer capable of going out 4 places with any real precision with a tenth mic and all you have to do is do several measurements with the same "standard" to see that both accuracy and precision are nothing but myth and words on a page.

Luck

I primarily use my digital vernier calipers for measuring a fired case and setting up my dies for minimum shoulder bump.

My cheap battery powered vernier calipers are accurate to .0005

Meaning it will read .001, .0015, .002 etc so its eithier under or over .0005

So when it comes to shoulder bump its close enough for anyone. And just as accurate as a RCBS Precision Mic. And I can check its readings with my pin gauges or bullets.



On the flip side of this I ordered a carbide expander for my .243 and it measured .2428 with my micrometer. I sent a email to Redding and they told me the expander was within tolerances.

This expander sits unused in the die box because its only .0002 smaller than bullet diameter. (so much for precision)

quote:

My cheap battery powered vernier calipers are accurate to .0005

Meaning it will read .001, .0015, .002 etc so its eithier under or over .0005

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

quote:

My cheap battery powered vernier calipers are accurate to .0005

Meaning it will read .001, .0015, .002 etc so its eithier under or over .0005

If I read your bio correctly your from Kalifornia where Marijuana is legalized for recreational use. Therefore your opinion is just too far out to be credible.

Do you know how to tell when you have smoked too much weed?..........When you try to rub something off your back and it turns out to be the floor.

I have a half dozen dial and digital calipers

Brown & Sharp 6" .100 dial
Brown & Sharp 6" digital
Mitutoyo 6" digital
Starrett 6" .100 dial
12" China made line scratchers
8" China made line scratchers

I cut steel for a living using just about every machining method there is to transform sawcut blocks of steel into plastic injection molds.

When it comes to calipers quality pays off in accuracy and smoothness.

When I want accurate measurements better than +/- .001 I use one of my micrometers

I bought a few of the HF digital calipers a few years ago.....8 bucks each with 20% off coupon.

I used them to make dedicated bullet seating gauges for 17 and 20 caliber cartridges. Heck....even the Davidson attachments cost more than the calipers. I went so far as to trim the caliper "tail" off.....so everything would close and fit back into the caliper's box.

One note though.....there is a very slight battery drain(in the microamp range)when the calipers are off. Even that varies, depending on the "vintage" of the HF caliper.....and when bought.

Even so.....the SR44 batteries, at HF, were only 50 cents a pop.

BTW.....my Starrett digitals are always "on" when they are off. Unfortunately, their two batteries are not so easily replaced. BUT...it does read to tenths.

Kevin

Digital Caliper Round-Up (this was posted at AccurateShooter.con reloading forum)
Which Digital Caliper Should I Buy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqZx_FNbSs

Second place caliper $26.95
iGaging IP54 Electronic Digital Caliper 0-6" Display Inch/Metric/Fractions Stainless Steel Body
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001...?tag=caliper7-20#_=_

quote:

If I read your bio correctly your from Kalifornia where Marijuana is legalized for recreational use. Therefore your opinion is just too far out to be credible.

Do you know how to tell when you have smoked too much weed?..........When you try to rub something off your back and it turns out to be the floor. faint

Well I have a degree in Industrial Technology with a concentration in Quality Assurance and sold tools and gauging for over 20 years. Some of the equipment I sold had a resolution of .000004" which is 4 millionths of an inch.
I was an authorized distributor for:
Starrett
Brown and Sharpe
Mitutoyo
Etalon
Interapid
Fowler
Swiss Precision Instruments
Bausch and Lomb
But maybe you're right and I'm just high
Seriously, you are confusing resolution with accuracy. They aren't the same.
What you are showing in your post is not a blade micrometer but a caliper.
Here is a picture of a blade micrometer
http://www.msi-viking.com/assets/images/122-125.jpg

And below is a battery powered "blade" micrometer so stay on topic.

I agree with Blacktailer

Resolution and Accuracy are two different aspects

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I agree with Blacktailer

Resolution and Accuracy are two different aspects

The topic is shitty Chinese battery powered calipers and having good batteries. And I didn't say anything about "Resolution and Accuracy".

And my cheap less than $30.00 vernier calipers are more than good enough to measure shoulder bump. Plus I have two packs of new batteries and don't have the problem the OP brought up.

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:
If you are one of us who has used shitty Chi-com type calibers from Horrible Freight or Home Despot, then you may want to keep your batteries full when measurements are critical.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDype-j3hk

Worrying about those extra digits for reloading is a waste of time. IMHO

But some people are anally retentive

Merely trying to point out that calipers have their limitations no matter how you read them, whether that is vernier, dial or digital. They are fine for case OAL, etc. where reading within a thousandths or 2 is not a problem. If you are using them to measure case head expansion you may be in for a nasty surprise some day.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Merely trying to point out that calipers have their limitations no matter how you read them, whether that is vernier, dial or digital. They are fine for case OAL, etc. where reading within a thousandths or 2 is not a problem. If you are using them to measure case head expansion you may be in for a nasty surprise some day.

+1