Hi
I have resized a load of Lapua brass with a Lee Collet Die, and wished I hadn't as the neck tension is crap (I polished the mandrill and inside the die body)

I now have a new redding neck sizer, if I run the cases through that will it make any difference as I do not want to have to go with the lee sized brass. All I want is fairly uniform neck tension for decent accuract @ say 450 yds. It ok after full length sizing but I want to work the brass less.

If you are looking to increase the neck tension on brass already sized with the Collet die, yes, you probably can achieve that by sizing the brass a second time in your (newly acquired) Redding neck die.

To be sure this will be the case, you can measure the diameter on the mandrel of the Collet die and compare that to the diameter of the expander of the Redding die. Chances are, that expander will be smaller than the mandrel, and then you will get more tension through a second sizing.

quote:

I polished the mandrill

On the Collet die: if you are getting too low tension from using the Collet, how much (if any?) did you reduce the diameter of the mandrel?? You need to reduce the mandrel diameter with .001-.002" (Lee says max .001") to see the effect required.

- mike

quote:

All I want is fairly uniform neck tension for decent accuract @ say 450 yds. It ok after full length sizing but I want to work the brass less.

The Lee collet works brass the absolute minimum necessary and provides plenty of "tension" but it has a moving part and, therefore, a learning curve so some are better served with a simplier neck die.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

quote:

All I want is fairly uniform neck tension for decent accuract @ say 450 yds. It ok after full length sizing but I want to work the brass less.

The Lee collet works brass the absolute minimum necessary and provides plenty of "tension" but it has a moving part and, therefore, a learning curve so some are better served with a simplier neck die.

JimC Hi
Can you explain please re "learning curve"

What do you mean "the neck tension was crap"? And how did you determine that?

What I mean by crap is, that when I was seating the bullets some slid into the case with almost no pressure, other felt just right.
Been reloading for 20 years so, I dont know everything but I am no novice.
In addition the grouping was also "crap" compared to full length sizing.
I KNOW its the Lee die at fault.

quote:

Originally posted by galloway:
What I mean by crap is, that when I was seating the bullets some slid into the case with almost no pressure, other felt just right.
Been reloading for 20 years so, I dont know everything but I am no novice.
In addition the grouping was also "crap" compared to full length sizing.
I KNOW its the Lee die at fault.

I just kind of went through the same thing and found out it was my own fault for not closely reading the instructions. I guess I kind of cruised through them quickly and picked up on the part of when using it with a non-Lee press about setting it up to avoid going past the "break over" point. I also picked up on the part of an extra two turns but for whatever reason I had it in my head to turn it outward so that the RCBS press would reach full height and therefore not breakover.

But the instructions say to turn it a full two turns into the threads. Once I completed the obligatory self butt kicking and corrected my mistake, voila, problem solved.

Could this possibly be the problem?

Lee info here on collet die > http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

Look guys, he KNOWS its the Lee die at fault so advice in that direction isn't probably welcome.


As to your question, go ahead and use the Redding die; it won't hurt a thing. Next time stay away from the adult toy isles.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Look guys, he KNOWS its the Lee die at fault so advice in that direction isn't probably welcome.


As to your question, go ahead and use the Redding die; it won't hurt a thing. Next time stay away from the adult toy isles.

Come on guys, I am no expert, all I can say is that full length sizing gave me a 1/2 moa @ 100 yds, so I thought I would try & cut down on reloading time & overworking the brass by using the lee collet die, now my moa has grown to 1 1/2 moa! I am open to help and some on here have tried & thanks to them.
The site is called "accurate reloading" so I thought it was a good place to get help.
I dont understand the cryptic "adult toy" stuff & I am not rubbishing the lee die, just that it is the only variable, ok

quote:

Originally posted by galloway:
...I dont understand the cryptic "adult toy" stuff ...

I can help you with that. He is just being the normal North end of a South bound horse as he always is.

Lots of folks swear by the Lee Collet Dies for tighter groups, like the esteAmed Mr. Woods. I've never used one myself since I have excellent accuracy by P-FLRing with standard RCBS and Redding Die Sets.

The Collets seem to occasionally need a bit of Fine Tuning which you can probably locate by using the "Find" Button at the top of the page.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for that.
I have now run them through with a redding neck sizer, I can now feel that the neck tension is the same case to case, it wasnt with the lee (my fault maybe)
Testing tommorow, I will post up pics.

It was a joke, Galloway but its always hard to discern on a forum. I am however, often the the north end of a southbound horse. Its genetic.

Hotcore is little more than the methane trailing both

Just another dust-up on AR.

Its nothin' personal. Just a couple of bored guys duking it out in cyberspace. I'm sure we'd have a lot more fun in person shooting (not at each other) or hunting.

Galloway, in all earnestness, Lee collet dies do work but they take a little getting used to. But no die is perfect for evey application and collet dies can be a little specialized.

They are the bee's knees for delicate cases like 22 Hornet because they don't s-t-r-e-t-c-h the thin brass. I also like them for my bolt 223, 220 Swift and 22-250 because again, they don't stretch the brass and I don't have to worry with trimming.

If you have a particular lot of brass with uneven neck thickness, you'll play hell getting a good neck diameter because the collet can't bear on all sides evenly.

OTOH, I won't use mine for my pump rifle or auto loaders because I'd rather have more neck tension than have to crimp them.

Ok, thanks a lot.
I should'nt have titted about with my reloads but.... you just have to
Thanks for all the replies.
Back soon

What're you shooting those .5 MOAs with?? How many shots are you calling a group?

Lapua brass (FL sized at the mo)
150 grn Hornady SST
46.5 grns Varget
Rem 9 1/2 primers
Sauer S202
3 shots (I know it should be 5 but I stopped while the going was good!!)

quote:

JimC Hi - Can you explain please re "learning curve"

I mean it's not a simple "push the case in, pull the case out" process like conventional neck sizers. Using the Lee isn't a set process of following steps number 1-2-3 to achieve certain perfection; perhaps especially so for someone who's still new to reloading. We have to take the time and gain the experiece to use the Collet die to best advantage. And, as you have now proven, neck sizing itself is no guarantee of better accuracy than properly done FL sizing. Even when it does work better, the difference won't be massive.

You tell us about a 3 shot group you quit while the quiting was good. Was that the .5 moa you expected to match with the neck sized brass? If so, you may have deluded yourself, three shots can prove a load performs poorly but it sure isn't any proof of great accuracy. Thing is, any small number of shots can be close simply by chance, one more shot could easily have opened it up to 2". The only measure of true grouping ability is what ALL of your hits will do. Five shots is a popular group number but that is a statistically poor guide; 20 or 50 shots is a MUCH better accuracy indicator.

Typical "averaging" of lesser shot groups simply allows statistically meaningless small individual groups to suggest accurcy is better than it really is. We can't depend on averages when shooting, real accuracy is what we can do every time we pull the trigger!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Its nothin' personal. Just a couple of bored guys duking it out in cyberspace. I'm sure we'd have a lot more fun in person shooting (not at each other) or hunting. ...

100% Agree, and you could buy a BBQ supper after the old guy out shoots you.

quote:

Originally posted by galloway:
3 shots (I know it should be 5 but I stopped while the going was good!!)

I prefer 1-shot cumulative groups from a pristine clean barrel. I've never taken 5-shots at a head of Game and never will.

However, the Paper Killing folks do like a whole bunch of bullets going into the paper without cleaning. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't meet my needs.

Hot Core, are you now the new Gunny Hathcock?
Just going to shoot one shot a day our of a clean dry barrel?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Its nothin' personal. Just a couple of bored guys duking it out in cyberspace. I'm sure we'd have a lot more fun in person shooting (not at each other) or hunting. ...

100% Agree, and you could buy a BBQ supper after the old guy out shoots you.

You prolly could. I can't hit sh*t since I quit drinking. Except when I'm deer hunting with my 223 and Blue Dot loads.

quote:

Originally posted by galloway:
Hi
I have resized a load of Lapua brass with a Lee Collet Die, and wished I hadn't as the neck tension is crap (I polished the mandrill and inside the die body)

I now have a new redding neck sizer, if I run the cases through that will it make any difference as I do not want to have to go with the lee sized brass. All I want is fairly uniform neck tension for decent accuract @ say 450 yds. It ok after full length sizing but I want to work the brass less.

Hey galloway

The Lee Collet neck sizer will give the most consistant bullet grip when compared to the other types of dies. Read that again. The reason I know is that I did a test on sets of 5 cases each, one sized with a Redding bushing die without the expander (full outside neck turned first), with a conventional RCBS FL die with an expander and with the Lee Collet. I checked the ID's of the necks with pin gauges




they come in .001" increments but you can read between the gauges by how easily or tightly the pin fits in the neck.

The Redding bushing die did the worst and like I say they were outside neck turned fully



the ID's varied between 3 pins, loose on one pin up and tight on the other pin below the central pin.

The FL die with the expander did better but IMO there was .0005" variance in ID, varied between 2 pins.

The Lee Collet sized cases were all exactly the same. No variance in pin size or fit of the pin.

I set all my Lee Collets by first running the lock nut all the way to the top of the threads



this puts the lever handle at the most horizontal



so that you can gauge about 25# of weight that the instructions call for. Any more and you are not doing any good and too much weight and your will pop the aluminum cap.

Do not set your press to cam over at the bottom of the stroke!

Now regarding bullet grip. Lee says that a low bullet grip is integral to their concept of the Lee Collet producing straight necks with low runout and most of the pins that come with the die will only size the ID ~.001" below caliber. They want to sell you their Lee Factory Crimp Die which they say will fix the loose bullet grip problem (if you have a problem with it).

Me I order the smaller mandrels from Lee for $5.00 each and usually size with the mandrel that is .003" below caliber



These dies produce very little runout (believe me I've chased concentricity enough ), need no lube in the neck that you should clean out later and produce the most consistant ID.

Some have a hard time getting past the name "Lee" and others don't have the patience or persistance to learn how to work them (I won't mention any names HC ). There are thousands of us that swear by them and we can't all be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Hot Core, are you now the new Gunny Hathcock?
Just going to shoot one shot a day our of a clean dry barrel?

Nah, I seem to remember reading somewhere he used a Winchester.

Have had to use 2-shots on very rare occasions.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I can't hit sh*t since I quit drinking. Except when I'm deer hunting with my 223 and Blue Dot loads.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
There are thousands of us that swear by them [the Lee Collet die] and we can't all be wrong.

I was going to say hundreds here on AR alone; me being among the happy users. There are probably 100 satisfied users to every one that is dis-satisfied. And to those I say, take Lee up on their 'unconditionally more accurate' ammo offer. Send them back and get your $$$ returned. Continue using your Redding neck die.

Or, if you still desire to find out why your die isn't working up to snuff, try taking it apart and cleaning the machining debris out of the collet fingers. Which could keep them from closing tightly and doing their job. Same goes for the collets on the Lee Factory crimp die and the shellholder collet on Forster's case trimmer.

Using standard dies, FL sizing has been more accurate. Bushing dies are the way to go. IMO.

Just last night I sized 50 cases of 338RUM. This is one of 3 calibers I do not have a Lee Collet for. These cases were all 100% neck turned for a tight necked .366" chamber to the best of my ability like in the pic above.

The 2 bushings I have are .362" & .363". I was using the .362" bushing and the bullet grip was all over the place. I had to segregate 5 out of the 50 cases because they had significantly less bullet grip than the others at <.001" and could almost push a bullet in by hand. I didn't have a smaller bushing but imagine having to constantly change bushings to get the same bullet grip (within .001").

Now if I had a smaller bushing and was getting >.001" bullet grip and I didn't have the pin gauges, I wouldn't even have known about the varying bullet grip! Would have just seated all the bullets with un-informed bliss that everything was well in reloader-land.

I made up my mind to finally get around to ordering Lee Collets in all the calibers that I don't presently have them.

Just a matter of getting a



Oh, and at the same time I will order smaller mandrels in .336", .335" & .334" just in case and will probably use the .335" for a .003" bullet grip. Best of all worlds.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

quote:

All I want is fairly uniform neck tension for decent accuract @ say 450 yds. It ok after full length sizing but I want to work the brass less.

The Lee collet works brass the absolute minimum necessary and provides plenty of "tension" but it has a moving part and, therefore, a learning curve so some are better served with a simplier neck die.

Agree. I use the Lee die for my 260ai. If it isn't setup right, you don't get the neck tension. What also helps is size it, then rotate the case 180 & size the neck again.

Personally I am a Redding fan when it comes to rifle dies but I think I see some anti-redbox prejudice raising its ugly head in this thread.
Maybe the original posster just abbreviated the adventure to avoid a lot of typing but----as the post stands he:

Set up the Lee die and did not get the desired results

He did not:

re-read the instructions and try again
contact Lee or watch their instructional videos
actually measure anything
ask someone with more experience using the collet die before running out and buying a "better" die.

I use a lot of Redding and Forster dies neck dies included; I use a couple of Lee neck collets on hunting / plinking rounds. They all work fine. The Lees cost less. You have to pay attention and follow the directions to set the Lee collet die up right. Some people have a problem doing that....................If I were feeling really cynical I would mention the # of posts I've seen on this exact subject that read exactly the same but for brand of "better" neck die bought. I've seen a few folks who actually asked before wasting money on a "better" die.

PS for those folks using certain Lapua cases: Lapua has changed the neckwall thickness on at least some of their cases. This will not affect most people, but those of us who make new calibers from existing cases will notice the .001" wall reduction in some case necks. This all happened around the same time Lapua switched to the blue plastic box.

quote:

Originally posted by amamnn:
Personally I am a Redding fan when it comes to rifle dies but I think I see some anti-redbox prejudice raising its ugly head in this thread.
Maybe the original posster just abbreviated the adventure to avoid a lot of typing but----as the post stands he:

Set up the Lee die and did not get the desired results

He did not:

re-read the instructions and try again
contact Lee or watch their instructional videos
actually measure anything
ask someone with more experience using the collet die before running out and buying a "better" die.

I use a lot of Redding and Forster dies neck dies included; I use a couple of Lee neck collets on hunting / plinking rounds. They all work fine. The Lees cost less. You have to pay attention and follow the directions to set the Lee collet die up right. Some people have a problem doing that....................If I were feeling really cynical I would mention the # of posts I've seen on this exact subject that read exactly the same but for brand of "better" neck die bought. I've seen a few folks who actually asked before wasting money on a "better" die.

PS for those folks using certain Lapua cases: Lapua has changed the neckwall thickness on at least some of their cases. This will not affect most people, but those of us who make new calibers from existing cases will notice the .001" wall reduction in some case necks. This all happened around the same time Lapua switched to the blue plastic box.

Who rattled your cage?
I did not shorten the post to save typing
How do you know "I did not" etc etc.
For your info chum, I perservered with the lee die, ie, polished the internals, cleaned any burrs off the madrill splits, polished the mandrill down a thou, so on & so on.

Most of the replies I had were constructive & helpful, like I said I am no expert but not a novice either.
I guess you were born knowing everything eh

Geez, you gotta love these folks that ask questions and when they don't get the answers they want or aren't treated with kid gloves, want to get beligerant.
If you KNEW it was the die, why did you bother us with your questions? Maybe next time give us a few hints as to what answers you want to your questions. Not all of us stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Geez, you gotta love these folks that ask questions and when they don't get the answers they want or aren't treated with kid gloves, want to get beligerant.
If you KNEW it was the die, why did you bother us with your questions? Maybe next time give us a few hints as to what answers you want to your questions. Not all of us stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Jees, I appreciate all the help you guys have given and I will go with the Lee again, I did'nt say I "KNEW" it was the die or that it was rubbish just that I could not get the neck tension I wanted.
What I do object to is certain posters suggesting, in so many words, that I am a numpty and dont know what I am doing! Read my replies, I am greatful for the help.
Yet again I dont understand the cryptic bits "not all of us stayed at the Holiday Inn last night" nor do I need to.
To the helpful posters, Thanks, to the nit pickers
I wont reply to any more sarcastic shite regarding this, so go ahead, have the last say

quote:

Originally posted by galloway:
What I mean by crap is, that when I was seating the bullets some slid into the case with almost no pressure, other felt just right.
Been reloading for 20 years so, I dont know everything but I am no novice.
In addition the grouping was also "crap" compared to full length sizing.
I KNOW its the Lee die at fault.

Actually galloway you did say you knew it was the die's fault and perhaps that was read as well a bit too authoritarian. I'm not trying to kick sand in your face and I hope my original reply was seen as one trying to help.

I'm still kicking around with my LCNS. There's no doubt in my mind it is working as intended. But it still does not give the neck tension of my RCBS FL sizer, it isn't supposed to. If you want that type of tension I think I'd call Lee up and order a new mandrel. The polishing down on my own is not something I personally would try. Using a drill bit and some sanding paper or whatever it is others are using would most likely wind up in a very non-concentrical mandrel which would defeat the purpose of using this die to me. I'd prefer to get a smaller one that was properly machined. Just my opinion however.