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Does anyone have a good recipe for a good cleaning / polishing agent for adding to a tumbler? The locally manufactured liquid polish that I use is no longer available. Springbok | ||
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I use mineral spirits in a spray bottle. Turn on the tumbler with the lid off and spray it evenly as the media circulates. Stop before the media starts to look wet. | |||
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Any brand of car wax that does not contain ammonia. I use "Liquid Kit" because it is easy to get and works great. One of the commercial sellers I know uses good old DuPont #7. | |||
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If you are looking for shiny brass, a bit of Flitz (sp?) is usually a good addition. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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 The info you've gotten is good. An option I've adopted from this forum on earlier threads seams to work well for me;While the tumbler is running I spray orange 409, about 7 times.I then add about 1 tablespoon BON Ami cleanser ( finest grit cleanser).Add 25 +or- whatever strips of paper towel (1/2"x 1 1/2" or so).The towel really helps to keep the grime off the media. The towels I change every time and the 409 is used with each load. The Bon Ami is added about every third load. I use the walnut shells and get them at a good price from the pet store. The cases do not come out polish bright but they come out CLEAN and bright.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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bon ami is powdered rocks. | |||
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Is that good or bad? Seriously.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I use rice in mine, mixed up some hot water with Turtle Wax brand of rubbing compound mixed well, added it to the rice and let dry, makes for some really clean but not shinny brass, plus leaves some wax on them so your finger prints wont turn them brown again. Dwindling the worlds lead supply one cat at a time!! | |||
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I use walnut shell and rice together mixed 3 rice to 1 walnut. My brass comes out very clean and shiny. No problems yet Chris | |||
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Take some of your Bon Ami and sprinkle a bit on a slightly damp sponge sponge. Then locate a clear piece of plastic and give it a few rubs. You will notice no abrasion. Do not do it with a paper towel though, because the wood fibers in the paper towel can scratch the plastic. Bruce Hodgdon told years ago about making a Paste with Bon Ami and your favorite Bore Cleaner(days of Hoppe's #9 and Birchwood Casey) to clean the residue out of barrels from using H870 with light bullets in Magnums. It would cut through the residue and leave the barrels mirror bright with zero scratches. Toothpaste is more abrasive than Bon Ami from tests I've run to find out. | |||
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Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Thanks guys! Appreciate the advice. Now if I can just locate some of the products mentioned in RSA ......  Springbok | |||
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Not for me, but one of my real close relatives is trying to get all the new quarters. Funny that Wal-Mart seems to get them even before the Banks do. That is a nice looking rifle. I especially like the Laminated stock. Haven't got any of it on Order yet. Waiting on you to tell me how well it shoots.  | |||
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I tried the paper-towel-trick, but somehow the pieces of paper towel keep "floating" to the top of the media when the tumbler is running. Needless to say that they don't work well that way. By the way, you guys started me thiking: I bought a 2-pound can of 3M ultra Finish Compound #09591 on discount, a couple of years ago. I just remembered I still had that can somewhere in the cellar. However, the label reads "course". Is that a problem? Could it damage my brass? (Or maybe the chamber of my rifle, if ever a cartridge is loaded that has traces of the compound left on it?) "A man's gotta know his limitations" | |||
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Bon Ami is powdered feldsper, which has a Moh's hardness of 6 or so. Iron is a 4-5, a steel file is 7+. Will feldspar abrade a barrel? Maybe, maybe not, I don't care to find out. Brass polish just does not cost that much to use. | |||
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For many years I was a Product Evaluation Engineer and had variations on this type of discussion with everything from Software to Component Reliability. The basic problem when you get into these discussions is the information provided can be 100% true and have absolutely no relationship to the specific application. In the above statement from delloro, he is 100% correct about the feldspar hardness falling between 6-6.5, but for Polishing, the Screen Size(or Grit as is often misused) comes into play as well. For example: When you do an Inner-Layer Sample of a Printed Circuit Board, you cut a section from the Board and set it on edge in a Sample Ring. Then you pour good old two part Epoxy inside the ring to hold the PCB edge straight and square. Once the Epoxy dries, you use various grades of Sandpaper to grind down the Sample Face to expose the PCB Inner Layers. Needless to say this induces a severely scratched surface to both the Epoxy and the PCB Edge. Once you get to 1200grit sandpaper, you go to a Slurry Dish to Polish the Sample. You use a damp pad with of all things "Aluminum Oxide" to Polish with. And you do this with 3-4 descending Screen Sizes of the Aluminum Oxide. And finally a two step descending "Diamond Lap". This gives both the PCB Edge and the Epoxy a mirror quality finish. So, to follow delloro's argument, are the Aluminum Oxide and the Diamonds harder than Epoxy? If so, why don't they "scratch" the Epoxy? And this is what the discussion always ends in when you push it far enough - the poster never tried it and simply does not understand the dynamics of the process. That is not a slam on delloro, lots of folks get tripped up on this issue. --- I used to see a comment from an alleged GunSmith who said not to use Aluminum Cleaning Rods because they form Aluminum Oxide on their surface. And of course, the Mho hardness of Aluminum Oxide is higher than steel. Therefore he (incorrectly) rationalized that if the Aluminum Cleaning Rod touched the surface of a Land in the Bore that it would cut it out like a Rasp. Simply another improper conclusion. That does not mean the Aluminum Cleaning Rods are great however. | |||
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was the PCB/epoxy substrate abraded or not? I don't care how smooth it is, if material is being unnecessarily removed, I do not want it in my barrel. Shooting the gun removes enough for me. The aluminum oxide on a cleaning rod is only a few molecules thick as it is a self-limiting process. the soft aluminum substrate prevents the Al2O3 on the rod from acting as carborundum, a hard, crystalline form of Al2O3 that *will* act as a rasp. If you want to wear you barrel away very smoothly, then go ahead. Have you performed any tests yourself to determine that material is not being removed? Until you do, then you have performed no scientific investigation beyond what I have performed on this matter, which is none. Also, and this is not a slam on you or or people like you who think they are scientists, but I know that sticking my hand in a running blender would cause great harm, though I have never tried it. I don't have to try it. Here's why: 1) Blender hard 2) Hand soft 3) Blender destroys soft stuff 4) THEREFORE - I inductively reason - without sticking my hand in a blender - that sticking my hand in a blender would cause great damage to my hand. now, for the case at hand.... 1) Rocks are hard. 2) Rocks are harder than iron, and harder than some steels 3) Barrels are made of steel. 4) Barrel steels are not as hard as file steels, not by a long shot. 5) Some rocks will scratch, and remove material from some steels. 6) Bon Ami is made from a powdered rock with a hardness comparable to many steels. 7) THEREFORE - I inductively reason - Use of powdered rocks such as Bon Ami in a steel barrel may very well remove material from that barrel. Bore cleaner just does not cost enough for me to take that risk. Dunno about you. don't get tripped up yourself while looking for others to trip. | |||
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In addition, I've run extensive tests concerning Imbedding vs Non-Imbedding Abrasives. You can do it for yourself using a piece of Galvanized steel and a soft clean toothbrush. But, it is apparent you are not interested in Testing anything for yourself. The decreasing screen sizes of the "abrasives" remove less and less material as they get progressively smaller. As you reach the final steps, you are simply polishing, not abrading. Apparently you are either not reading my previous posts, are unable to comprehend the information or simply overlooked the above. But, I've no desire to argue with you. It appears you believe that regular Bore Cleaner is non-abrasive. It either must be abrasive to remove the Residues, or the chemicals of a nature that they will disolve Copper, Powder Residue and Primer Residue. Are you aware of a non-abrasive Bore Cleaner that works well and will not etch the Bore if it remains in it for long periods of time? And you seem to think using a product which will not scratch plastic will create Bore damage. How about giving me an education on that concept? Yes, it is apparent you did not try scrubbing the plastic with the sponge and the Bon Ami. Let me offer that your "inductive reasoning" is mis-leading you into an improper conclusion. | |||
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the finer the abrasive, the smaller the scratches. even very small abrasives still "abrade," hence their name. The fact that you can't see the scratches does not mean material is not being removed, and that there are not any scratches. you don't think that the smooth epoxy surface was perfectly flat, do you? some bore cleaners are abrasive (rem bore cleaner, JB bore paste) most are not. I do not use the abrasives. yes there are bore cleaners that will dissolve copper and powder fouling without etching the barrel when used correctly. Hoppe's and MPro7 dissolve the powder fouling without harming the metal. Bore foams like Milfoam dissolve the copper without dissolving the iron; I have feft it in overnight and not discerned any etching. Sweet's and other ammoniac copper removers do not etch barrels when the directions are followed. Ammonia complexes with copper and nickel readily, but not iron. as to your education, here goes: the coarser abrasives left scratches visible to you. the abrasive particles gouged out the softer epoxy, leaving gouges, or scratches. as the abrasive particles became smaller, the gouges left from removing the material became smaller as well. to result in a smooth appearance, material had to be removed to at least the depth of the deepest gouge, or scratch. with each following application of progressively finer abrasive, the gouges left when removing the prior grade's gouges became proportionately smaller, until you could no longer resolve them optically. you therefore pronounced the surface "smooth." that does not mean that there were not still gouges, but most importantly, it does mean that material was being removed. If you don't think material was being removed - which is the point, after all - then you have some 'splainin to do. if you want to put powdered rocks in your bore because you think all other bore cleaners are either abrasive, corrosive, or ineffective then knock yourself out. but don't try and tell others that there is no way you are not removing metal from the bore. | |||
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Hey delloro, Best of luck to you. | |||
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The very little experience I've had with lapping taught me that the soft surface captured the abrasive and the hard surface was abraded. My preference is for polished, hard rods, and I avoid soft or plastic coated ones. The new tumbling ceramic rods and spheres do not seem to remove metal from brass cases because they are hard and smooth. However, paper in paper-patched bullets is glazed with kaolin clay. The wear is not great, I think. This discussion has been going on for more than a century. Regards from Darkest California, Ross | |||
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how much bon-ami should one add to the tumbler? I would not put it in my barrel but if it reduces my tumbling time I will use it in my media. 2 table spoons Heaping??? If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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what ive used for years is walnuts with a spoon of mineral spirits and a spoon of brasso in it. | |||
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I don't understand why the strips of paper towel come to the top and stay there  how big are they? I agree that the bon ami will act as a lapping compound on your chamber.If you have ever lapped a chamber you will know just how much effort it takes to even remove .0005" off the diameter. Before this would happen using bon ami( truely small amount **) treated cases you would get a smoother chamber and it would happen after about 10,000 rounds. You will still have a wonderfully useable chamber but all them bullets going down the barrel will ware out your rifiling and cause your accuracy to fall off more than you want to put up with.  I see no connection between using Bon Ami in your tumbler which would cause consernable ware ,if any, your rifiling.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Hot Core uses Bon Ami to clean his bores, that's how it gets in the bore. Read his post above to see. to you too. | |||
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Sure is nice to be able to agree with delloro. Yes, I do use a Bon Ami / Bore Cleaner "Paste" to remove the Residue from shooting H870 with some lighter weight bullets in my rifles. The really great thing about it, is it doesn't hurt a thing except the Residue, which it removes. It was recommended by none other than Bruce Hodgdon just for that purpose. He had tried various things and finally settled on the Bon Ami / Bore Cleaner Paste since it did no harm to his rifles, but removed that tenacious residue. The Tests I've run simply support his recommendation. I've Tested on Epoxy, Plastic, Galvanize, Brass and Steel(as well as I can remember), oh yes and on Paint from an old car hood. For what it is worth, Paper Towels(which I use for patches) and a Medium Toothbrush are more abrasive "with nothing on them" than the Bon Ami is. And the nice thing about it is anyone who doubts it can check it out for themselves. Then once the Residue is removed, I give the barrel a normal cleaning, lightly grease the bore and follow with two dry "Paper Patches" to remove any excess. So, my actual Tests have shown the Bon Ami / Bore Cleaner Paste to be totally SAFE and fine for my rifles. | |||
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Golly gee delloro! I wasn't slanting a critisism toward you to protect Hot Core. Hell he don't need no gun toting alies. The inference was that when I use Bon Ami in MY TUMBLER it doesn't necessarilly migrate into the barrel and if it did the quantity would be so minute that the barrel would be unaffected. I guess it's just one of those sensitive Fridays. Oh! by the way in many of my mod. 98 Mausers I do use a slurey of oil and Bon Ami in the barrels. I also use Cloverine 1200. These hammer formed barrels aren't going to know the difference are they? Delloro there was no offence intended And I'm really not sure why it seemed that way to you. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Max: I tried the paper-towel-trick, but somehow the pieces of paper towel keep "floating" to the top of the media when the tumbler is running. Needless to say that they don't work well that way.QUOTE] I am tumbling right now and the towel strips are moviving the same as the cases If you Pm me maybe I can help.roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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musta been the friday. sorry bout my reply, I thought you were calling my post(s) BS. anyways, you really aren't using Clover 1200 grit are you? while Hot Core's powdered feldspar *might* be wearing his barrel away (the hardnesses are close, but I am having trouble finding any credible way to precisely compare feldspar to barrel steel), the silicon carbide used in some in Clover is *certainly* way harder than barrel steel. if you are not yanking my chain and have actually been using silicon carbide lapping compound to clean your bore, I would love to see the results of a bore scope inspection and a barrel slug. | |||
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Has anybody here ever used playground sand to clean up dirty cases, then wash them, then corncob ? I'm try'n to keep from useing steelwool by hand to clean before corncob polishing. Dwindling the worlds lead supply one cat at a time!! | |||
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Not yanking your chain. I'm talking really fouled barrels here; stuff that you could not even practically use a bore scope on.Like a last ditch stand before I remove and replace the barrel. One such barrel I salvaged and made into a USEABLE 8mm-06 that would shot 1 1/2" at 100 yards. Two others I made into scout sporters in 8mmX57 and they do fine in the field.So far the super dark mod. 98s is the only thing I use lapping compound on.  Again we are getting far a field and what my intent was ; show that there is little if any problem with using reasonable quantities of Bon Ami in your tumbler. I am ,however, prone to yanking chains now and then.NO rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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from the manufacturer: "After further checking it depends on the circumstances whether Bon Ami would remove steel through mechanical action. I assume you are using Bon Ami Cleanser. With that product after a period of time depending on how hard the mechanical action etc. was it could possibly remove some steel surface. It is a mild abrasive. I realize that is a lot of possibilities." not that it clears much up, but that's what they said. | |||
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I use a product by Lyman called Tuf-Nut. It comes in walnut and corn cob. Both contain ground-up jewellers rouge. Because you are tumbling dry your media will not cake up inside the case or primer pocket. The media stays clean much longer, and the cleaned cases are a thing of beauty. It took me a while to catch on to this, but I'm certainloy glad I did. Best wishes. Cal - Montreal Cal Sibley | |||
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