Fellow forumites,

I had my first humbling experience at the range today. I was doing a little playing around, shooting 5 gallon pails with a variety of calibers, recording the differences in effect for posterity on my camcorder.

Well, I fired a test shot with my .375 H&H at a paper target. I was testing the POI of the open sites as I had never used them on this rifle. The shot didn't hit an 11" x 17" paper target! The surprising part was that that the last shot I was able to take with that rifle, as the bolt would not open. I guess it was a pretty hot load!

After a couple hours in below zero temperatures, my buddy and I managed to get the bolt open (by hand, no hammers) but the case was still stuck in there. I could plainly see that there was no primer and that the primer pocket was almost double its normal size. There was brass stuck in the ejector hole, and the extractor was broken. Later, we managed to remove the brass at home with a cleaning rod and a couple hard raps.

But here's the kicker....that shot was the first one out of a fresh box of Remington Safari Grade factory ammo, with the 300 Grain Swift A-frame!!!!

Any opinions on what I should do with the rest of the box??

Should I be contacting Remington for a new extractor?

Thanks for any advice.

Canuck

canuck, as i am relatively new here, take it for what it is worth. i would send the rifle to remington for very exact repairs and half a box of cartridges with load and lot ####"s. and a note telling them i have the other half box of cartridges, as proof in case of company denial. this way remington certainly knows there is a problem and they can do a recall if necessary. providing there was no rifle failure. even though you checked the firearm before shooting it. i am most happy to hear there was no injuries in this mis-hap. halfbreed

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overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

Sounds to me like Remington definitely needs a gunsmith. I would contact them and make every effort to make them pay for repairs to the rifle. At the very least they should know about the ammo so they can find out what's going on. You may save someone's eyesight (or an injury of some kind)who's rifle isn't made as good as yours.

Be sure and let us know what you do and how it turns out.

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

[This message has been edited by ultramag (edited 03-11-2002).]

I would give them a call first, then I would send the whole box of ammo and the fired case, too. But...Is it very difficult to ship loaded ammo out of Canada?

Canuck, was it a factory rifle or a custom? I would think Rem would deny responsibility if the rifle wasn't "factory" chambered. Pretty scary!

Canuk, I would call Remmington first thing on monday and tell them they possibly have a serious problem with some ammo you purchased. You may also want to tell the store where you got this gun and/or ammo. Tell them the lot # and what happened to your new gun. If they ask you to send the ammo back(which they should), do like halfbreeb said, keep half. Then ask them what they plan to do about your new gun.
Many moons ago I bought some factory 30-06 ammo that only had a partial powder charge, barely enought to get the bullet out of the barrel. They sent me a case of ammo.

Good luck and thank goodness it wasn't any worse. *Nut*

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If guns are outlawed, Only outlaws will have guns.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will definately call them tomorrow and see what happens.

For all interested in checking their ammo, the number stamped on the inside of the box is M30 NC0023.

Daryl, It is stock Win M70 Express. Prior to this incident, I put about 4 boxes of this ammo through it without a hitch (1" groups even!).

Canuck

YIKES! I'd sell it and build a .470Mbogo! The quality control of the ammo is much better!

I know I'll get flamed for this but I have heard variations of this event for as long as I have been shooting. Bolts melted into receivers, actions frozen, etc, etc. It could happen, perhaps it has but I have to see it first hand. Sorry. Kinda like the fellow that trashed remington brass by saying he found a cigarette butt in his brass AFTER he had loaded and fired it.

Well someone has to ask this. If this was the first shot you fired had you first checked the bore for obstructions? I shot a bear one night that was being a nuisance at a park. When I got home the rifle went in the gun case. The next day I went to the range to test some new loads. Before shooting I pulled the bolt and had a look. No daylight at the other end. Pushed the cleaning rod through and forced out a mass of semi-dryed clay with a bunch of insect eggs in the middle and some more clay at the other end. I think it might have been a spider or possibly a wasp of the kind we call mud daubers that did the deed. Overnight. That kind of taught me to assume nothing about the condition of a rifle bore and I was lucky enough to catch it before the rifle was ruined.

Contact Remington immediately and send them nothing or your proof is gone forever. Explain what took Place and see what they will do first. You must have that rifle checked by a very good gunnsmith to be sure the action has not been stretched by this event. If your action is stretched it has been ruined and can't be fixed it must be replaced. I would not send that rifle to Remington. Once it leaves your posession you can forget about getting satisfaction from Remington. Record the production numbers on the box of ammo you fired, it should be on one of the flaps of the ammo box or printed on inside insert that holds the cartridges. This is a very serious problem that Remington must fix as soon as possible or another shooter may be seriously injured. You are one lucky Dude that rifles action held together.

Make sure you hang on to those cartridges and don't fire any more of them. They must be loaded with the wrong powder. It is Remingtons responsability to repair, replace or do what ever it takes to compensate you for the damages their faulty factory ammo caused you. You can talk to Remington by phone as often as you need to and get this serious saftey problem resolved.

Canuck --
I am glad you were not hurt.
If it's not too late, I would consider the following:
FIRST, as has been said -- NOTIFY REMINGTON IMMEDIATELY. If you did not have an obstruction, it is probably the ammo. And possibly due to the sub-zero temperature you refered to. *** Extreme cold can result in higher pressures *** just as extreme heat can. I recently read an article about this very topic -- extreme cold causing pressure spikes. (It was either in PRECISION SHOOTING, ACCURATE RIFLE, or HANDLOADER and it has been within the last 3 months or so, I think.)
Then:
(1) Buy two or three more boxes of ammo with the same lot #, if possible. Send some to Remington, not now but later. Save some for testing. And save some until the fat lady sings.
(2) Have disinterested third party(ies), verifying chain of custody, pull a representative sample of the ammo and weigh charges, examine brass, etc....
(3) Again, keeping chain of custody intact, take a sample of the ammo to someone who can test it, proof it. This may be really difficult - Perhaps impossible to find a qualified lab. BE SURE TO TELL THEM ABOUT THE SUB-ZERO TEMPERATURE IN WHICH YOU FIRED THE ROUND.
(4) The idea is to establish whether the ammo is at fault and to put together an irrefutable case if it is.
(5) Report your findings to Remington and THEN send them a sample.
(6) Be sure to have a well established, credentialed RIFLEsmith check out your rifle for damage, flaws, etc. . Photograph, record measurements, witness testimony, etc..
(7) As a strategy, I would not make too big a public stink too soon or Remington will have to dig in their heels as a litigation - saving measure. Try to handle it quietly. Remember if they cooperate, they may be seen as tacitly admitting culpability/liability... Something that most lawyers advise their clients NOT to do.

You probably would not like to go through all of the above. It may well cost you more than you think it's worth. But that's how you might build an airtight case in order to win... which, afterall is "the only thing", right?
Best wishes, good luck and, again, I'm glad you weren't hurt --
--Doc