With the bowhunting I just made time today to get back to the range and shot again. Of course I loaded 140 Sierra Spitz SPBT with H-4350 @ 46gr. CCI Prim. 2.80" OAL. Since that is what shot .795" group 1st time. Today, that load shot a 3.192" 5shot group. Same lot of everything and the only difference I know of was the 1st group was last group fired at that trip. Today's group was first group fired from Clean barrel. I don't say cold barrel because I let barrel cool between every 3 shots completely, about 20min. That my friend was discouraging. However, I did load that same recipe also with 47gr. I shot it between 2 diff. targets so I measured the 5 shots seperate because I made a scope adjustment between targets. On first target w/3 shots of 47gr. It grouped. 1.87". Minus 1 of the shots, 2 of those 3 grouped .576" . On second target after scope adjustment, The 2 remaining 47gr. loads grouped after the barrel cooled measured .5" and hit in the 1 inch bullseye. If you look at 4 of the 5 shots between the 2 targets the 47gr. load looks promising. I don't know whether to load up .5 more gr and try or what? What do you think so far????

OK, the only other group I shot was the last group today and only 3 shots. It was with 140gr. Sierra Spitz SPBT with Reloader 15 @ 41gr. even and CCI prim. @ 2.80" OAL. I shot this the last 3 shots of the day right behind the 2 last 47g. shots (only exception w/letting barrel cool because I had to get home and was late). I know I did not have a good sight picture on last shot becuase I had to pull back 2 times before firing it and I somewhat did not get it confidently settled in dead center before going ahead and hurridly yanking it off. Yet, it measured 1.21" 3 shot group. The 2 I know was good before that last hurry shot meaured .51." but it was 2 of the 3. Again, Reloader 14 @ 41gr.
That was todays range trip. Considering this with 1st trip, Im not sure where to go from here. Your interpretation and guidance is very much needed. I love this Weatherby rifle. I must say it is the best Rifle I have ever shouldered as far as fitting me. I can also say I don't have as much confidence in the Nikon scope as I did the Leupold but finances don't allow anything else right now. But, this Nikon scope come off my 30-06 Rem 700 and it was a tack driver on it and very consistent. So, where do I go next???
I do have some more 7mm bullets my father in law gave me. They are 130gr. Speer Spitzer SP flat base. (whole box). I just like idea of 140grains better in 7mm-08. Sorry this post is so long, I was just trying to explain it clearly and it all. Hope it makes sense when you read it instead of running together.
Whitey

Assuming Weatherby built your rifle properly I have some recipes here for you that all shoot 3/8 inch groups. I use a Rem 700 varmint 20" barrel, glassed and floated.
Rem Brass, CCI BR2 primers on all.
Sierra Gameking 160HPBT, H4350EXT 43.8 gr. 2.763 length 2500 FPS
Barnes 140TSX, H4350EXT 48.5 gr. 2.775 length
Barnes 14TSX, Varget 44.5 gr 2.775 length 2831 Fps.

You have a great deer rifle if you get the recipe right.

YOur post was a bit confusing, but here's the bottom line: Shoot only three shot groups and let the barrel completely cool between each 3 shot sequence.jorge

Hey Bearbuck, Is there a particular reason you want 5-shot groups?

Are you cleaning the barrel at the Range?

No particular reason for 5 shot groups. I was just told to do it that way long ago to verify accuracy correctly. (I guess we are told many things that aren't neccesarily required to give good indications.) Also, I have not been cleaning it at all at the range. I have, however, been cleaning it when I get home after every shooting session whether that be 1 shot or 20 shots. I give it a very good cleaning each time also.
I will say this, I have noticed that the rifle does seem to get more consistent in its shooting and accuracy after I get somewhere between say 7 to 12 shots. I don't know how long it will stay that way until it becomes to fouled that accuracy drops off. What do you think???

Bearbuck

Come on, somone has to have some time to help somebody out. Thats the reason that I came to these forums is because of the experience and knowledge others have, but you have to be willing to share it and not just take.

Hey Whitey, More than happy to help you out. I just don't sit here all day on the computer though.

Five shots are fine for Target rifles, but the lighter your barrel, the more "potential" you have for the barrel to heat up and move around a bit. And I doubt you bought your Weatherby to use primarily as a Target rifle anyhow.

Since you are planning to actually Hunt with this rifle, and I've never seen a situation where anyone needs 5-shots at the same critter. If serious blood has not drawn on the second shot, then it is time to STOP and see what is wrong with the Rifle, Cartridge, or Trigger Yanker.

If you posted about this "Load" previously, I feel sure I would have recommended H414. That doesn't mean that the H4350 is a bad choice though, H4350 might even be more accurate in your rifle. Some of the questions may be a bit tedious, but we need to go through them to help you out. And your rifle should end up shooting around an inch or better, so don't get discouraged.

You obviously don't have many Bullets through this new rifle. And it sounds like you did not "break-in" the barrel. In either situation, getting some Bullets through it will help things in the long run as long as you don't shoot it while it is HOT and end up frying the throat. Getting a new rifle shooting properly works best when approached s-l-o-w-l-y.

quote:

Originally posted by Bearbuck:
With the bowhunting I just made time today to get back to the range and shot again. Of course I loaded 140 Sierra Spitz SPBT with H-4350 @ 46gr. CCI Prim. 2.80" OAL. Since that is what shot .795" group 1st time. Today, that load shot a 3.192" 5shot group. Same lot of everything and the only difference I know of was the 1st group was last group fired at that trip. Today's group was first group fired from Clean barrel. I don't say cold barrel because I let barrel cool between every 3 shots completely, about 20min.

The H4350 appears to have potential. It might just work fine for you.

quote:

... I did load that same recipe also with 47gr. I shot it between 2 diff. targets so I measured the 5 shots seperate because I made a scope adjustment between targets. On first target w/3 shots of 47gr. It grouped. 1.87". Minus 1 of the shots, 2 of those 3 grouped .576". On second target after scope adjustment, The 2 remaining 47gr. loads grouped after the barrel cooled measured .5" and hit in the 1 inch bullseye. If you look at 4 of the 5 shots between the 2 targets the 47gr. load looks promising. I don't know whether to load up .5 more gr and try or what? What do you think so far????

From what I've read so far, it seems you may have "lucked into" a fairly decent Load.

quote:

OK, the only other group I shot was the last group today and only 3 shots. It was with 140gr. Sierra Spitz SPBT with Reloader 15 @ 41gr. even and CCI prim. @ 2.80" OAL. I shot this the last 3 shots of the day right behind the 2 last 47g. shots (only exception w/letting barrel cool because I had to get home and was late). I know I did not have a good sight picture on last shot becuase I had to pull back 2 times before firing it and I somewhat did not get it confidently settled in dead center before going ahead and hurridly yanking it off. Yet, it measured 1.21" 3 shot group. The 2 I know was good before that last hurry shot meaured .51." but it was 2 of the 3. Again, Reloader 14 @ 41gr.

Rather than confuse the discussion with too many Loads, lets forget about RL-15 for now and concentrate on the H4350.

quote:

That was todays range trip. Considering this with 1st trip, Im not sure where to go from here.

I will get you headed in the correct direction as long as you are willing to slow down and take it a Step at a time. If that doesn't interest you, then some of these other guys can help you.

quote:

I love this Weatherby rifle. I must say it is the best Rifle I have ever shouldered as far as fitting me. I can also say I don't have as much confidence in the Nikon scope as I did the Leupold but finances don't allow anything else right now. But, this Nikon scope come off my 30-06 Rem 700 and it was a tack driver on it and very consistent. So, where do I go next???

I have a Wby U-Lt and I agree is is indeed a fine fitting rifle for me as well.

I've never had a Nikon scope, but have not heard anything negative about them. Since you know it worked well on your 30-06, it should be just fine on the 7mm-08.

quote:

I do have some more 7mm bullets my father in law gave me. They are 130gr. Speer Spitzer SP flat base. (whole box). I just like idea of 140grains better in 7mm-08. ...

Actually, both of the 130gr Speer bullets will be difficult to beat in the 7mm-08. Speer makes a 130gr Flat Base Hot-Cor(like you have) and a 130gr SPBT in 0.284". The one your Father-in-Law gave you is my favorite and has killed a whole lot of Deer for me.

But, we are ahead of the situation and the 140gr Sierras should do an excellent job for you too.

1. Did you actually Develop the H4350 Loads, or are they randomly picked?

2. Are the 140gr Sierras long enough to reach the Lands in your rifle and still be inside the Case?

3. What kind of "Case Prep" did you do?

4. Go into a quiet room, close your eyes and very slowly "Dry Fire" your rifle. Do you feel ANY creep?

5. What is the shape of the Target you are shooting at?

6. Does the Nikon have an Adjustable Objective(front) Lens?

7. Are you shooting across Sand Bags from a solid Bench?

8. Are you wearing Ear Plugs and Muffs?
---

I would encourage you to take your "Cleaning Equipment" with you to the Range and clean every 6-9 shots. The Cleaning Fluid will help cool the barrel and it works better when the Fouling is fresh.

quote:

Originally posted by Bearbuck:
No particular reason for 5 shot groups. I was just told to do it that way long ago to verify accuracy correctly. (I guess we are told many things that aren't neccesarily required to give good indications.) Also, I have not been cleaning it at all at the range. I have, however, been cleaning it when I get home after every shooting session whether that be 1 shot or 20 shots. I give it a very good cleaning each time also.
I will say this, I have noticed that the rifle does seem to get more consistent in its shooting and accuracy after I get somewhere between say 7 to 12 shots. I don't know how long it will stay that way until it becomes to fouled that accuracy drops off. What do you think???

Bearbuck

I read a lot about copper fouling from the Barnes bullets that I started loaded which concerned me so I sent an email to Barnes. The reply was that you could shoot 50 to 100 rounds without noticing an accuracy change. I have never shot that much without cleaning so on my last trip to the range I fired 30 rds with Barnes 180 TSX in my 300SAUM and never got a loss of accuracy. I covered my 30 round group with a quarter. Try your rifle one day and check for yourself after you finally get the right load for your rifle.

Thanks to Hot Core and Dwight

Dwight, I am going to try that. Right now my rifle is setting in the vise with all cleaning equipment ready but not started. I am going to pull it out and wait till after the next range session so i can see how it performs. Although it is killing me not to know its clean. Rifle cleaning is an obsessive compulsive disorder for me.
Hot Core, I am currently getting the answers together in order that you asked to post back. Thanks

I put together a mark five synthetic with an 12 1/8 LOP with a Nikon 2x7 UCCc in 7mm08 for my nine year old daughter . My dad loaded up some 120 grain Ballistic tips with 35.6 grains of h 48.95 .This is the youth load from Hodgen.I shot a 1/2 inch group at one hundrerd hards . My Daughter kept every thing inside 2 1/2 inches with very little felt recoil . Just for giggles I shot a three shot group at 250 yards and it measured 2 1/8 inches .This rifle shoots AWESOME .At 2600 fps this should be an awesome white tail load for under 150 yards.


Woodie

In Follow up to Hot Cores Questions,

I did actually develope the H 4350 loads. I had actually shot it in my last 7mm-08 until that rifles barrel went down the tubes, so it was where i started with this rifle.
2. As far as if the Sierra bullets are long enough to reach the lands and still be in the case. I don't know? I simply have been loading them at 2.80" because that is what the manuals list as OAL maximum.
3. On case prep, I start by full length resizing them. Then I trim them all to same length and chamfer them inside and out of case mouths, then I clean out the primer pockets and wipe brass down. Thats it.
4. Dry firing the rifle, I do not feel any creep that I discern. In the quiet room I do feel like the trigger is a little heavier than my taste. More so than my other rifles. However, with the Weatherby Mark V I can adjust that easily.
5. The target I am shooting consist of this: It is a cardboard box with a peice of white typing paper stapled to it. In the center of the paper I have one of the 3" black shoot-n-see stickers. In the dead center of that sticker I have about a 1" orange sticker to help me center the reticle.
6. The Nikon scope I have is the Pro-Staff 3x9x40. It does not have an adjustable objective on it.
7. I am doing my shooting at a range on a solid bench. My rifle is in a vise and is rock steady stable without tightening the vise down to put pressure on the stock against the barreled action.
8. And yes, I am wearing Ear Muffs. Used to just shoot all the time and it never bothered me, but about a year or so ago it started ringing my ears for 2 to 3 days and I realized that to protect my hearing I need muffs and have wore them since.
I hope this gives you enough information to help you, help me. Thanks

Whitey

quote:

Originally posted by Bearbuck:
Thanks to Hot Core and Dwight

Dwight, I am going to try that. Right now my rifle is setting in the vise with all cleaning equipment ready but not started. I am going to pull it out and wait till after the next range session so i can see how it performs. Although it is killing me not to know its clean. Rifle cleaning is an obsessive compulsive disorder for me.
Hot Core, I am currently getting the answers together in order that you asked to post back. Thanks

I know what you mean about keeping things clean. I am a fanatic at times keeping equipment clean for longevity. Whithout running a serial number check you would never know my 708 was 24 yrs old.
The copper fouling issue was bugging me so much that in the email to Barnes I asked how much cleaning equipment I needed to lug on my next hunting trip to eliminate the problem. I was both surprised and relieved at the 50 to 100 round response without needing a good scrubbing. My test of 30 rounds proved to me that I don't have to worry so much while on a trip. I will however go back to my normal routine of cleaning after a 10 rounds.
I was a IMR 4895 fan for many years but this year the H4350EXT replaced it. I also found that Varget is an excellent powder in the 7mm08. I prefer the Varget since I have a little more room in the case and the Barnes TSX is a little longer and gets seated deeper as per their instructions which turns out to be more accurate.
Good Luck with your loads and happy hunting. I am off this evening for a trip to Ga to test the TSX on some whitetails.

Hey Whitey, Here are some thoughts that might help you. Use what you want and trash the rest.

quote:

1. I did actually develop the H 4350 loads. I had actually shot it in my last 7mm-08 until that rifles barrel went down the tubes, so it was where i started with this rifle.

You “might†do fine that way, but I would recommend you Develop a Load specifically for this rifle.

There was a youngster spreading the word a couple of years ago here at AR about “Optimum Charge Weight(OCW)†Loads. His belief was that once you found the OCW for a Cartridge, that exact Load was perfect for all rifles of that caliber. Only problem is that it isn’t always true.

The Load you are using might or might not be fine in your current rifle. The only way to know for sure though is to Develop a Load specifically for this new rifle.

quote:

2. As far as if the Sierra bullets are long enough to reach the lands and still be in the case. I don't know? I simply have been loading them at 2.80" because that is what the manuals list as OAL maximum.

I like to Benchmark a new rifle with either Sierra MatchKings or Nosler Ballistic Tips. And as I’m running the Test Loads, I prefer to Seat them 0.005â€-0.010†Into-the-Lands. I’m not concerned about whether they will fit within the magazine at this point, simply trying to see the accuracy potential of the rifle.

quote:

3. On case prep, I start by full length resizing them. Then I trim them all to same length and chamfer them inside and out of case mouths, then I clean out the primer pockets and wipe brass down. Thats it.

I do a bit more than that, but I’ll be the first to agree that some of it is probably wasted effort. However, it gives me confidence in the Final Load, so for me the extra effort is worth it.

I would recommend you set your Full Length Die up for Partial-Full Length Resizing. It has proved to provide the best accuracy for my rifles, but that is up to you. If you do choose to do this, it should be done after Fire Forming the cases.

Fire Forming allows you to get a bit more Trigger Time with the new rifle, a few more bullets through the new barrel and a great chance to do a thorough Break-In Procedure. I like to do it, but a lot of folks don’t and consider it a waste of time. So, this is also something not absolutely necessary.

quote:

4. Dry firing the rifle, I do not feel any creep that I discern. In the quiet room I do feel like the trigger is a little heavier than my taste. More so than my other rifles. However, with the Weatherby Mark V I can adjust that easily.

Good. I’m really spoiled on excellent triggers. Once a person uses them it is very difficult to shoot well with one that has creep or drag. Dry Fire it everyday.

quote:

5. The target I am shooting consist of this: It is a cardboard box with a peice of white typing paper stapled to it. In the center of the paper I have one of the 3" black shoot-n-see stickers. In the dead center of that sticker I have about a 1" orange sticker to help me center the reticle.

I do believe you can Upgrade your Target. What I recommend is a Black Square on regular old 8.5â€x11†paper. And you can put more than one on a sheet. Try about a 2†square and put 4 on a sheet.

When you get ready to shoot, just ease the Crosshair up to the Corner of a Square. This way you only have two things to align rather than bisecting a circle into 4-quadrants. One of my buddies still prefers a circle, but I’ve found that to be rare.

quote:

6. The Nikon scope I have is the Pro-Staff 3x9x40. It does not have an adjustable objective on it.

In this situation, that is one less thing to worry about. But, you do need to be concerned about Parallax. Non-adjustable Objective scopes are normally set to be Parallax Free out at about 175 yards. It is very important that you get your “eye†in as close to the same place as possible from shot to shot. It helps if the Scope is forward far enough that you need to move your head just a tiny bit forward to get a FULL sight picture.

quote:

7. I am doing my shooting at a range on a solid bench. My rifle is in a vise and is rock steady stable without tightening the vise down to put pressure on the stock against the barreled action.

I’m not a fan of these devices. Perhaps it will work exceptionally well for you, but I would use it as a holder while cleaning the rifle only. The problem is that after you shoot and go through the recoil, it repositions the entire “vice†on the Bench. Same can be said for shooting the rifle from your shoulder though. But, I believe it is easier to overlook a slight bit of “cant†or misalignment with the rifle in the vice. And a tiny cant can create patterns rather than groups.

So, I just don’t use a rifle vice for actual shooting.

quote:

8. And yes, I am wearing Ear Muffs. Used to just shoot all the time and it never bothered me, but about a year or so ago it started ringing my ears for 2 to 3 days and I realized that to protect my hearing I need muffs and have wore them since.

I’d also recommend you wear Ear Plugs as well as the muffs. You want to be as cut off from outside sounds as possible to help prevent them from distracting you. All the muffs I’ve ever worn will occasionally move slightly away from the ear as you begin settling into position. If yours don’t, good for you. If they do, stick in some Ear Plugs too.
---

So, let’s see what my current recommendations are:

1. Develop a Load specifically for this new rifle.

2. I prefer to use a Sierra MatchKing or Nosler Ballistic Tip Seated 0.005â€-0.010†Into-the-Lands during the Initial Load Development. But, you can use your current Sierras. If they won’t reach the Lands, let me know and we will discuss what to do there.

3. Use the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method to locate the shot clusters.
3a. For example the first case using H4350 would have 46.0gr, the second case 46.3gr, the third case 46.6gr, etc.
3b. Shoot these Test Loads at 300yds on a single Target if at all possible. 100yds makes it more difficult to locate the clusters.
3c. Mark each shot on a Spoter Target as you are shooting so you know exactly where they hit and in what order.
3d. Locate the “clusters of shots†which indicate you are hovering around a good Barrel Harmonic.
3e. Reshoot the Cluster Loads in groups of 3-shots to determine which is the closest to the actual best Barrel Harmonic.

4. After finding the best Harmonic, Fine Tune the Load by adjusting the Seating Depth. If there is an interference problem with the magazine length, then adjustments will need to be made for that prior to the Fine Tuning.
5. Shoot at the corner of Black Squares on 8.5â€x11†paper which you can 3-hole punch and retain in a Binder with all your Load Development information.
6. I’d shoot from Sand Bags rather than use a vice.
7. Ear Plugs and muffs.
8. Clean the barrel while at the Range every 6-9 shots. Then lightly lube the Bore and run a couple of Dry patches through it to remove any excess.
9. Take a 22LR along to the Range and shoot Off-Hand with it at Soda Cans out at 100yds while the barrel on the Centerfire is cooling.
10. Remove the bolt and set the rifle’s Recoil Pad on the ground so you get a “Chimney Effect†to help cool the barrel quicker.
11. NEVER shoot the barrel when it is HOT to your touch.

Yeah, Some of those Weatherby rifles can be a pain at times.

Have you thought about giving Varget a try?

Reloader