I have read much on the virtues of the new WSM's and am thinking of having a custom rifle built.

Do you think the WSM's will ever die or go away and I should have the rifle built for a more traditional cartridge OR do you think the WSM's are here to stay???

Thanks!

MIBIGHNTR

Understand that if you are having a custom gun built, resale is not and should not be an issue. Make is just the way YOU want it. Most custom guns don't fetch as much as you would think used since the market is slim for anything that you cant see in a catalog. Since your choice is between 2 factory rounds go with the one you like, the real issue would be factory or wildcat since you reaaly hurt resale with nonfactory rounds.

The WSM cartridges are like bell bottom pants and platform shoes were in the 1970's - a fad.

In 2 years the gun stores will be clogged with used WSM's that lost their appeal.

But if you like the WSM, go for it!

Of course it's all speculation, but look at the advantages of the case--short, fat powder column (conducive to good accuracy), higher velocity with less powder due to the efficient case design, fits in shorter actions. I'd bet it's going to be here to stay. I don't see any logical reason why the majority of shooters/hunters would want to sell them once they have them.

MIBIGHNTR;
I can't think of a non-wildcat cartridge I'd rather build a custom rifle around. This is no passing fad! It doesn't attain the velocity of a "RUM" but you can't put a 90 to 100 grains of powder in it either!
Factory rifles and ammo have been proving to be very accurate right out of the box!
A custom rifle would only be that much sweeter!

To my view the short magnums are a very good idea. Why not make a rifle a little more compact and improve powder combustion, balance, reduce weight and get rid of the useless-hard to reload belt at the same time?

Some short magnums in the recent past have flopped however. The 6.5 MM Rem Mag and .350 Rem come to mind. There are so many of the new short mags that I don't think that all of them will catch on. In fact the one that I bought, the 7MM WSM, got off to a late start and although it's an excellent cartridge I am not sure of it's fate yet.

There is no doubt that the .300 WSM is not only here to stay but that it's going to be a top seller. And it's up against some good competition with the 300 WM and 300 Weatherby but it's got everything going for it. The .300 WSM is a very good looking cartridge, the rifles are a little handier and the other 300 mags tend to be clumsy rifles. Also it has the perception of having less recoil. Of course it must have a little less but it's powerful enough to fill the bill as a real .30 Magnum.

It's in new rifle sales that the battle will be won and I never liked shooting the old .300 Mags. They just kick a little too hard and it's the recoil velocity to me as much as the recoil energy. As I intimated above the .300 WSM has the perception of less recoil. I am postitive it will be a winner.

I a building a new custom rifle in .300 WSM with a 22" barrel. I will load it down for most of my Eastern hunting as the 30/06 is, of course, a perfect cartridge velocity wise for those ranges. But should I want magnum performance I can at any time.

The .300 WSM has the action length of a .308 Win and the power of a .300 Mag. That's a win win cartridge to me.

Short Magnum advantages: Can use a "short" (medium) length action. This allows the rifle to be about 5/8 inch shorter and 4 or so ounces lighter than a rifle on a "long" action.

Disadvantages: Fewer rounds in the magazine than belted or standard cartridges; some rifles exhibit feeding problems; less power than standard belted magnums; factory loads often exhibit excessive pressure; more expensive ammunition and brass.

If the slightly shorter and lighter rifle is important to you, then the disadvantages can be ignored or overcome. Build the caliber which suits you the best. You're the one that has to be pleased, not us. Remember, if a cartridge goes out of "style", just wait 20 years or so and everybody will want one: Example, .280 Remington, .22 Hornet; .221 Fireball (and the .30-06, which has been through the "cycle" about 4 times.)

Considering the .308 and it's ilk never displaced the 30-06 and it's ilk, despite being within 100 fps of the larger case, I see the WSM's as not displacing the std mags. The short mags still fall 100 fps behind the std 2.5" cased mags, and just don't think that many folks really care about the minimal weight savings.

The 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag are world std calibers, and they simply aren't going to go away. It is hard to say what the future of the WSM's are, they certainly seem to fill a niche and I've heard alot of the rifles are being sold.

This Thread got my wheels turning.



Here is a smattering of implements I'm partial to and their respective differences,regarding both action and barrel lengths. They are sorted as to overall length,with the shortest obviously at the top.

Overall length runs from a modest 38-3/4" to a less handy 46-5/8". I don't know about anyone else,but I can readily discern the difference in handling characteristics,between the two.

The uppermost rifle is a S/S Model Seven in 7-08,wearing a 20" tube. It is a chambering I very much favor. The third rifle down(black/white swirl) is a 7SAUM based upon the same action and wearing a 22" tube and is 40-3/4" overall length as I specified a like length of pull for each.

Point bein',I think the 2" of added length and the reward of over 300fps is a very good trade,for me. To soundly trump that sorta performance,I'd have to ante up to a 24" barreled 700 long action,chambered in 7mmRemmag(which is another chambering I favor). But coming full circle,the added weight and length of both the barrel and action required to gain that extry 100fps isn't really to my craving,as i'm not a heavy projectile nut anyhow. With this short/handy Sledge Hammer,I've lost interest in the 7mmRemmag despite a long and most favorable relationship.

It'll weigh sub 7.5lbs upon receipt of the bases/rings I wish it to wear for eternity and a scope swap. That would be a switch to the alloy Talley's and a 6x42. I intend to build a lighter one chambered in 7WSM and wearing a 23" or so inch tube,as a curiousity.

The Pink 25-284 I constructed for my Wife and it is actually shorter than the SAUM,despite wearing a 23.25" long barrel. That due to the 600 action being about a half inch shorter than the Model Seven and my opting a slighter LOP for her. It is a 25-06 +P,housed in a very short action. It is 40-3/4" overall,of superb balance and amazing accuracy.

Makes little sense to me,to opt a long action 700 in 25-06 or 25-06AI to trump it's performance. Though I built and love a 24" 25-06AI(that rifle also wears a Mountain Rifle patterned McMillan and is 44-1/2" long)and have had a pile of 25-06's and couldn't cuss a single one. While that 25-06AI is superb,the 25-284 sees more field use,as it simply offers too much juice in too handy of a package,to negate those advantages.

In case you were wonderin',4 extry inches of muzzle length and a heavier receiver,are both easily discerned as well. I guess that is why I have built a 22",23.25" and a 24" 25-284 on a 600 and a brace of 700 shorts. Much Ooomph in a friendly package,'tis hard to argue with and obviously a chambering I favor.

Back to differences in actions and barrel lengths...The 4th rifle down is a SA 700 based 25-284,wearing a 22" tube. It is 41-1/2" long overall. The Pink rifle with the shorter action,wears a longer barrel and shorter overall length. While not an earth shattering difference,betwixt the two,it is noticeable. It is also handier than it's long action 25-06AI cousin.

I expect my pending S/S Model Seven based 257WSM to be the Meeeow,in that diameter.

The rifle second from bottom,is what I'd term a "full size" rifle. A Sako L61R wearing a 26" tube. However,it operates in a realm that the short/fat short action cartridges cannot simply touch. It is chambered in 338Ultra and a horse of a different color. If that sorta performance is on the menu,it is a H&H lengthed action or bust and she is 46-3/8" overall. That's the price of dealing that sorta business.

The bottom most rifle is of the same ilk,no "shorty's" can touch it. It is a 30-8mmRemmag on a long action 700 and again wears a 26" tube. It is 46-5/8" overall in length.

Point I was tryin' to make is that there are many rungs upon this ladder and some overlap,while others are DISTINCTLY different. Some will opt nostalgia,others will price brass,though some will measure performance.

Were I starting over,I'd build on the short/fat theme with a fury. They simply offer much juice in a splendid little package,the "cost" to ante up and trump them is not worth the weight/length IMHO,until you start talking extreme performance chamberings. I'd not build a long action anything,until I entered the 30cal realm.

My thinking is that there is overlap in those lesser diameters,as far as comparing their performance virtues,to some of their long action wearing cousins and when talking big bullets at big speeds(.30's on up),you simply must employ a big motor,be it full length H&H or larger yet. So I'm content with the SA offerings,in many diameters,but still lean on the LA offerings at the opposite end of the spectrum.

But hell,that's me and your mileage might most certainly vary.................

Well said 'Stick....and you can send the 25-284 anytime you get tired of it.

Let's consider the new guy buying a rifle for the first time or maybe adding another rifle....why would you buy a 30/06 when you can buy a 300WSM or 300SAUM? If you don't believe either of these two are basically (not totally perhaps) the equivalent of the 300 H&H or 300 WinMag they are certainly "more" than the '06! And certainly a lot more than a 308.......no one is suggesting that those who have and love '06s throw them away but come on guys wake up and smell the coffee.

My father has a M700 300wsm with a 27.5" pacnor barrel and is getting 3269 fps average with a 178gr A-Max and RL19 at 73gr. This is safe in his gun, at 65k psi on the Oehler 43. My 300 Ultra is getting 3260 on average with 95gr RL25 and the same bullet at about 63k psi in a 26" factory tube. You be the judge. His is extremely accurate as well.

He is building a M700 LA 6.5wsm right now, barrel should be here in a week or so.

CHECK OUT THE 270WSM AND 300WSM...I HAVE 2 BROWNING A-BOLT 300'S AND A M-70 FEATHER WEIGHT 270WSM THEY ARE ALL EXCELLENT RIFLES.I SHOOT ABOUT
200-300 ROUNDS A WEEK...NEVER BEEN DISAPPOINTED YET
REGARDS

Brett,you have a SLOW ultra....I am getting 3410 with the 178 out of a 26" tube with only one more grain of powder

You know Big Stick, you've either got to be single, or rich to own all those guns--What's the scoop???? I know it sound like i'm jealous, but i'm not, not really, honestly!!!!!!!?

'coyote,

That's funny as I am neither.

I somehow married above my means(shithouse luck) and money means little to me(greed do not motivate me).

The scoop is I know what I like and why,and know how to source it. Smart shopping is not to be overlooked,when sourcing superb componetry.

Basically,I keep my nose in the wind and pinch superb components at very fair prices. I do not want a screaming deal on a piece of shit,but will act quickly upon a bargain of excellent merchandise.

Those differences,are drastic. As are the end results.........

Interesting thread. I'm guessing the new magnums are here to stay, but to me the question is between Remington's versions and Winchester's, which will survive? Historically the two companies have essentially conceded portions of the market share to the competing company. Remington has ruled the .25 and .28 calibers, Winchester has ruled the .277 and .308 market. I guess you would also give the .243 market to Winchester as well. Weatherby will always remain a niche round, so it won't ever truly die. But now it seems both Remington and Winchester are competing with essentially identical rounds. Something's gotta give.

If you still can't decide, just get a 6.5 Swede, a 300 H&H and a 375 H&H. That will cover the spectrum very nicely and surprisingly, you wouldn't have needed to look much farther than the turn of the century to solve the problem.

Martindog

It seems that the Remington SAUMs are too little-too late. It's true that Ruger is chambering the 77 for one or the other of them but if you look at the posting activity at shortmags.org there is far more interest in the WSM's.

Profit wise it seems that not much is lost by introducing a cartridge and then having it fade. They don't take the rifle back do they? And when they run a batch of the ammo off the price is higher.

Not only that but I bet there is more profit in ammunition sales than guns. If a 30/06 lasts 50 years and fires $20 worth of ammo a year that's $1,000 worth of ammo. Remington can always load WSM's.

I think this cartridge thing bothers us more than them.

My 7 MM WSM is not getting a lot of talk. What the heck. I can get brass for it. That's all that I need for local hunting.

I don't know about where you live but here in SE Missouri the .270 and .300 WSM's are selling as fast as they hit the shelves. I shot my first .270WSM the other day, I liked it so much I'm considering purchasing one myself. I never here much about the 7mm WSM but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a .270 or .300.

The short fat calibers have intrigued me from the get go, but being a staid traditionalist, I've yet to build one. I know the .308 Win, .30-06 Spr, .458 WM based cartridges I use feed, chamber and eject perfectly with little fiddling. I guess the thing that has always concerned me about the "short fattys" is ensuring their feeding smoothly and reliably.

For those of you who have purchased or built one of the short mags, have you experienced any problems tuning the follower, feed rails, and ramp to get precise and dependable feeding, chambering, and ejection?

If a rifle won't feed reliably every time, it's worthless to me. I've heard some things about people having problems getting their WSMs to feed in the early factory rifles. Any firsthand stories out there?

I have a new 7 mm WSM in a M 70 SS Classic. It fed perfectly from the start. In fact it feeds smoother than the pre 64 300 H&H M 70 that I have!

It will feed empty cases (with no bullet in the case) and that's a full magazine of them. I just tried that with my late dads old FN Mauser and that 30/06 will not feed even the first empty!

The chamber and barrel in this rifle are as smooth as any that I have seen in a factory rifle with the exception of 40X's.

A member here by the name of Brad from Montana got one of the early M 70's in .300 WSM and it had some feeding problems. He got it straightened out somehow.

I am going to build a 300 WSM on a Montana action with a 22" barrel. I see this as an all around rifle that will balance well and even be used for woods hunting. I will load it down to 308 Win levels for my 150 yard maximum hunting and load it up to 300 H&H levels for game at longer range.

With it's short action and superior balance to all the other "magnums" that I have and have had I see this rifle as one I will reach for again and again.

If the 30/06 could be truly improved in any way and reborn I see it as a 300 WSM. This is the greatest compliment anyone could give a cartridge.

Norm,

I have a Model 70 Laminated in .300 WSM. I have had no problems at all with its feeding, or anything else. It has been a honey of a rifle, aggin' 3/4" at 100 yds! Finish is great, feeding is great, shoots great.

I am not quite sure why I bought a .300WSM. I am a pretty die hard "old" cartridge shooter. If its 100 years old, I'm just gonna' like it, but something about the WSM line intrigued me since they came out, and I finally broke down and got one. Glad I did with this particular rifle.

To me, a couple ounce or a few less inches is no big deal and isn't a factor for a hunting rifle. I know what I like in a rifle and this one fits the bill pretty good. I have never been a big fan of the .300WM or 7 Mag, et all, so I passed on rifles in those chamberings for a while. Don't ask me why, I don't know. I'll be the first to profess their virtues and know that they have many, but they just weren't right for me. But the curiosity bug got the better of me on the Fat Boy, and haven't regretted it a bit.

I don't pretend that it is a magic do-everything cartridge. I have settled on my intrepretation of what it is and what it can do. I don't try to get hyper-performance out of it, but acknowledge that it may have some characteristics that I can take advantage of for my kind of hunting. I know it won't replace the tried and true, and if it slips into obsolescence, thats OK by me. I like "obsolete" cartridges.

Good post Stick, great to be able to see the comparisons.

This was my thinking on choosing a 300WSM.
Do I like the 260,708, and 308 win? Yes
Do I like short actions? Yes
What if I could load each of these up to
400 fps faster than their little brothers. Yes,
I would like that.
The only drawback if it is that..is I have to give
up a round in the magazine. For me that was a
big so-what!
As far as Im concerned they should have called it
the 308 magnum and compared it the 308 win instead of the 300 win mag.
I can load the 300 WSM at 308 win velocities and get just as good accuracy from a hunting rifle.