Over the last 30 years of loading all manner of ammunition, and I laod for over 35 different calibers/chambering's, I have come to a conclusion that starting at the bottom of the scale in the manual only wastes components. I know about the level of performance the caliber is directed at and I try to achieve that. I do usually start at the top and make up test loads in .5 gr. increments. I do not feel uneasy with this and this is the same philosophy the testers use when working up loads to put into the manuals. Since I do not have any way to measure pressure, I use the conventional wisdom of working up in small units and checking for unwanted things. This is not the most scientific method, I know, however even in a lab the data is only empirical for the barrels and chambers used to develop the data and not necessarily applicable to ANY other rifle. I have blown up a rifle twice in my life both cases were due to case head separation. I inadvertently mixed some rejected cases in with my fire formed cases and lost. No damage to me and the rifle was rebuilt and I promptly used the same batch of ammunition to blow it up again. That is how I found out about the case head thinning out. I pulled all the bullets, weighed the charges (they were in the mid range of loading data) and found that there were 7 more cases that could have blown from being too thin in the web area.

I pretty much shoot bolt action rifles and I usually start somewhere between half and 3/4's of the max load. I've never blown up a rifle. While I look at the book max as a point of reference not an absolute, I like to know what my rifle's max is but seldom do I run my rifle full throttle as a constant thing.

Although I don't load for quite as many different chamberings as you (17 or 18) I do much the same based on previous experiences. I don't start at the top or necessarily the bottom although I am fairly conservative. I don't have any means for testing pressure but typically I am loading for max accuracy as opposed to max speed. I guess the best way to put it is "it depends" -for my prairie dog loads in the appropriate calibers I am looking at volume and accuracy. In my big game stuff I am looking at performance based on a particular bullet and for my informal target shooting obviously accuracy is my only goal.

Well...I can agree with you on the wasting components by starting at the very minimum point, but I never go maximum to start. I'd rather waste components than waste guns. Usually, I'll go 3 grains less than max, just in case my chamber is tight when compared to the test barrel. For the last five years I've been using the Hornady and Hodgdon manuals. Even they will sometimes vary up to 3 grains on what they consider to be max. Most of the time they are within a grain, however.

As far as presure checking, I'll measure the presure ring sizes, check the primers, the case, and look for soot on the case neck (low presure check).

As far as blowing up guns, you must either have a hell of alot more money than I do, or your plain stupid. I don't see the point in trying to hotrod a gun to the point of potential, or outright explosion. To me, doing this twice is a sign of outright stupidity. (If your rich enough to do this, then it's outright wasteful) The rewards certainly don't outweigh the risks. Loading to your gun's max, as you know, can result in:

1. The velocity actually decreases with increase of powder.
2. The velocity isn't worth the hassle. 50 fps doesn't affect performance to a just noticeable difference.
3. Brass wears out soon
4. Throat erosion increases
5. Realted to #4, but barrel life decreases
6. Greater chance to pit the bolt face
7. What you already experienced a couple times, blown gun.

yep,..I usually start with a mid load and work up. I am only after the best accuracy. Once I have it at say around 100yds,..I'll work up a few charges on either side of the 100yd accuracy load, and then run that smaller ladder at 300yds to see if the extended range likes a slightly different powder charge. The 300yd performer is the one I keep.

I usually start near the bottom, and prepare two cartridges at each of four loads. I use a chronograph, and, starting with the lowest pair, plot muzzle velocity vs. charge.

If I reach the published max velocity, or if the curve isn't going up linearly, I stop and call that maximum. Using this method, I have found book loads that were just plain wrong.

A couple of my rifles are instrumented with strain gauges, so for those, I'll do the same thing, but directly keep track of pressure as well.

First you must decide the most compatable powder for the cartridge your shooting. Most reloading manuals will list the powder that produced the most accurate load listed by color code or *. Those manuals that don't, usually show most accurate powder listed first. determine realistic accuracy goals before you begin testing. My accuracy goals with all my rifles is 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Very important to maintian excellent record keeping in all your reloading.

Over the years I have aquired a master copy that lists the most compatable poowders to try first for many cartridges. In reloading, the basic concepts of reloading are cast in stone, but only the rifle can tell you what powder, primer, bullet, brass, it will digest best for peak accuracy.

I always start at the starting load with three rounds loaded at a time, moving up in 1/2 grain increments to maximum load listed. My accuracy load is almost always found below maximum load listed. Bullet seating depth can then be re-adjusted to shrink groups further. Re-adjusting seating depth can be far more productive accuracy wise than tweeking the powder charge. When you find your accuracy load you must then reproduce that load.

Invest in an inertia bullet puller to take apart those rounds not fired. If your accuracy load is midpoint why fire the rest, take them apart to conserve supplies. It makes no sense to fire those rounds that you know will not measure up to your accuracy expectations.

With aquired reloading experience, you should learn and know what powders should work best with a given cartridge. Example: 6PPC= N-133 or H-322.

Let me tell you what would have happened had I done what all of you except lb404, eldeguello and Denton, do.

Bought my .500 A-Square Hannibal. Looking at the book I should get 2251fps using 112 grains RL-15 adjusting for my 23.25" barrel length. The max load is 118 grains for 2407fps.

I loaded 10% down from beginning load, just like all the reloading books tell us to. I found something interesting. I was quite high in velocity. Much higher in fact. 113 grains gave me exactly book max of ~2405fps with a spread of ~50fps. The highest load I tried of 113.5 grains give me 2485fps and range of ~40fps. This is over max. The adjusted velocity for my barrel was 2407 @ 57,500 psi. How much more to get that additional 85fps? Here is the kicker: what would have happened if I had just loaded 115 grains ("3 grains below max", "about in the middle"), and pulled the laynard? Possibly nothing more than a sore shoulder, probably much worse. If the graphic pictures of a case seperation with a tiny .308 Winchester doesn't do it for you, think about a case seperation using 3 times the mass of powder. Not pretty.

Not to be patronizing, but the point is: follow the book. Two lousy cases, loaded in 1 grain increments to find how the powder/velocity relationship is working and then you start to refine the load.

I was lucky in not having to find this out the hard way.

Arguably a .500 A Square Hannibal has far far less proven loading data than say my .300 Win Mag and is chambered in significantly less total number of guns. That being said I still feel that I load safe and prudent with accuracy and safety paramount to all other things reloading. I don't ever recall loading anything to a book max cause ....as was said earlier typically that is not where the accuracy is. Loading at a book minimum for a rifle such as a .300 WM .....in the case where most all books concur I feel is somewhat wasteful. Its not so much the components but the time. Working slow and diligent from mid level loads has proven quite effective and most rewarding for about 30 years.

I want to thank you that responded. In my 30+ years of reloading I have yet to see a max. published load blow up a rifle that was properly put together and properly chambered. It might be prudent to start low and go high. Perhaps the only reason I can think of to start in the medium range is just in case the published data is flat wrong. I usually compare load data from several manuals and see where they overlap that is possibly a good starting point. For those that are as anal as I , I to chrono every load and plot the performance.

I always start at the begin load chart in load book and work up to near Max.

I've been loading for 27 years for pistol and rifle. I usually start somewhere in the mid-range after consulting several load manuals and doing whatever research I can via articles, loads I might see from you fellas (with a grain of salt, lol), books, etc.



I don't usually try for max loads, accuracy at about the 85-90% level is what I strive for. Best accuracy is rarely at maximum load levels and it's easier on me and my guns. That extra 50-100fps just isn't that big a deal to be honest. My chronograph is my best tool to indicate approx where I am with a load cuz most cartridges have known performance levels you can expect with a given powder. Case extraction, primer flattening, etc are all other things I watch for along the way.



I've never blown up anything, I'm very methodical and conservative with my loading and it's been an enjoyable past-time for all these years.

The case head separations I experienced were not from overloads they were from my son mixing a bag of old worn out brass I had thought I discarded, in with a newer batch of brass to be cleaned. Once the brass was cleaned it was reloaded. It was only on the 40 th. round that the incident happened. I took the rest of the rounds (60) and pulled the bullets on 20 at random, measured the charges and checked the lot for case weakening. I still had 40 of the original loads left. I should have disassembled them all and discarded all as on the next trip to the range the fourth round blew the rifle in half. Winchester Classic short actions are very strong and safe. I have the proof.

I start at the velocity range that I am looking for. Especially if it is under what is listed as max.

Too many people are hung up on MAX velocity.

If you are hunting deer and in the environment you hunt, when 90 % plus are taken within about 75 to 100 yds, why do people think they need a 500 yd load, with 3500 ft lbs at the muzzle, for that 10% 'just in case'?? It escapes me.

Even if you are loading for varmints, I have decided to keep even my 22/250s down to a max of 300 yds. If I see something beyond that range, then I rely on my target turrents and the accuracy of my handloads and my shooting ability, instead of max velocity. It saves on barrel life,. powder costs etc, quite a bit.

If I need something that has a 500 yd range in varminting, then I don't plan on a lot of shots, then I can crank a 22/250 up to 4450 fps or higher, with a 40 grain bullet.

If I DO shoot at big game at 400 yds, then I rely once again on knowing my handloads and knowing how to operate my scope to adjust it for the 400 yd shot. If it is a 400 yd 'snap' shot then I will usually avoid taking it. For me personally, I can't vouche for where that bullet will end up if I miss what I am shooting at. Hitting a person with a stray shot doesn't happen often, but I definitely don't want to happen by me pulling the trigger.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Since I load only for hunting these days, I decide what bullets I want to use and what velocity they need to be at for the terminal performance desired and start loading/chronographing. Usually the best accuracy seems to come at slightly less velocity than max in the manuals and has very seldom been above those figures. To answer your question more directly, I usually start around the middle and see what my gun likes.

I load five rounds at each powder charge in 0.3 to 0.5 grains increments, starting with the manual's maximum and working downwards. Sometimes there are two maximums, the bullet maker's and the powder maker's.

Then I start shooting the lightest charge over a chronograph and work up. If I reach the barrel-length-corrected velocity of my manual's maximum powder charge, I stop there and make a note of it. I shoot the rest of the lighter charges for group, and I pull the heavier ones to get the components back. If I reach the manual's maximum charge and don't get their velocity, I consider changing powders or primers (back to the manuals).

I am sure it makes not one teeny tiny iota of difference, but the bullets from the pulled rounds are kept separate from fresh ones, and when I load them up, I write "fouler" or "F" on the case, and these I save these for noncritical shots.

H. C.

After looking at 3-4 sources for data on the powder/cartridge combination I want to load, I use some common sense (throw out anything that is way out from the rest) picking a max and loading 3 rounds each at max, max-1, and max-2 grains. Start with the lowest, check for pressure signs, and shoot them up. Check accuracy results. If the lowest gives best accuracy, do the same with max-3, 4, and 5. Fine tune acordingly, but I have usually found best loads are in the max-1 to max-2 range.

I've been reloading for 30 + years, all of it for either 300 Win mag, 300 WSM, 270, 270 WSM.

I've learned a few things.

First, max velocity almost never equals accuracy.

Secord, become a Born Again Reloader. Think of the published data put out by the bullet and powder makes as a fundamental gospel and FOLLOW it. The middle load might be a safe start 99.999999% of the time, but not always.

Last year I purchased a new rife. The first hand load at the start level blew the primer. I checked and rechecked my scale, found it accurare, then loaded another load. Same thing. This time I couldn't even find the primer. I cut back on the charge and still showed signs of pressure. Third shot over Chrony with the reduced load showed 150 FPS over max velocity from the Nosler data. I shudder to think what would have happened had I loaded a middle load, or even max.

The people that put out the data make even the most active of us reloaders look like rank rookies.

It's like driving a car a hundred miles an hour all the time. You can do it all the time and it will be safe, but if something goes wrong, it will be spectacular.

Good analogy to the car Roger. When is the last time you saw a race car with 100,000 miles on the odormeter?

Jeff

Most of todays loading manuals have a built in letigation clause meaning the max load is about two grains of more under max, if you compare them to the older manuals I have on hand...however you cannot depend on that so I always start one or two grains below max and shoot them out the door and check the brass..I usually cut back a grain or two off my established max for each of my guns, as 100 FPS means nothing to me or the game I shoot...

I disagree however that mild loads always shoot the best, not so in my rifles, they seem to shoot best at max for the most part, some don't.

I start at two grains above max for modern manuals for high power rifles that are stronger than the brass. I work up at one grain per shot for a few shots until the extractor groove expands, and the work back down for safety marging and accuracy.

I made the mistake of starting a 32 S&W long at max with a 1971 manual, and after 30 stuck cases, my forcing cone in the tiny 1907 revolver was bulged

My two most used manuals are Sierra and Nosler. Both list accuracy loads, and I usually use them as starting points.
Generally they are pretty close to being right on. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Expanded extractor groove threshold minus 6% powder charge is very close to the Sierra load.

Notice how Sierra has not had to change thier loads over the years?